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What Do I need?

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cjdeane10
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2010/08/04 12:16:40 (permalink)
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What Do I need?

Ok... looking for some guidance on what i need to make my 1600 xflow work...

Let me tell you what i have, and leave it open for discussion...

what i have;

- kent 224 cam (bought in 224K kit, so have stems, double springs, retainers, cam followers and lube)
- rekitted 45 dellorto on manifold to suit cam (linkages, etc all sorted)
- double chain cam sprocket and chain and tensioner
- taller rocker cover
- stock-as-a-rock 1600 711M cross flow

what i think i need;

- because of the cam lift, i need to modify pistons (?) to get valve clearance
- new pistons, new rings, new rods, etc (pretty much full bottom end re-build)
- car off the road for a week or more
- money (idea on approx cost would be fantastic)

Note; i dont want a highly modified beast, but am happy to spend the money for a rebuild with the correct parts if needed. please give me your opinion of what parts i would need.
#1


13 Replies Related Threads

    BootOn
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    RE: What Do I need? 2010/08/04 13:25:04 (permalink)
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    Have you thought about getting a second motor so you can keep the car on the road and take your time over the rebuild. Worked well for me and someone on the forum would have one for cheap.

    For a road going car on a budget i went with a bottom end rebuild so:

    Block cleaned and crack tested
    Replace core/welch plugs & cam bearings
    Bore and hone to next oversize, i went up 0.03" to give a capacity of around 1660cc and used pistons from the 1300 to get a little more compression.
    HP oil pump
    Steel crank pulley
    You will need to have the valve reliefs cut for clearance (I didn't but was using a BCF3 camshaft)
    Crankshaft crack tested and ground to next undersize
    I used the old rods with new bearings all round

    The trick is until you have had the machining done it may not be all that easy to determine what size the bearings and pistons need to be unless you know the full history of the motor or have a decent workshop.

    To get the full benefit of the cam upgrade and bottom end work i guess you will be looking at larger valves, port matching on the head and probably some work on the ignition side of things either electronic ignition or get the dissy re-calibrated

    When i got my block done it was around $500 but i didn't shop around. Pistons from Burtons in the UK would be about $100 each once you factor in the postage. 'MK1 Lotus' on this forum seems to have a huge amount of experience and a workshop that specialises in this sort of thing.

    Cheers
    #2
    cjdeane10
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    RE: What Do I need? 2010/08/04 17:48:47 (permalink)
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    thanks Boot-on, excellent info. its the engine work / grinding i wasn't too sure of.

    i forgot to mention that i already have a steel pulley, HP oil pump and electonic ignition kit... :)

    I had thought of an extra engine to do this to... its a good idea, because the esky is my daily...

    But, if i had to put it in the shop - how long would i be without a car if i got someone else to do the other bits?
    #3

    BootOn
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    RE: What Do I need? 2010/09/04 07:51:41 (permalink)
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    The cleaning and machining would only take a day or two depending on how busy the workshop is. If you plan on putting it back together yourself it's well worth taking your time checking bearing clearances; a bit of care on the rebuild can save you big time and $$$ later.
    #4
    cjdeane10
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    RE: What Do I need? 2010/09/04 14:11:38 (permalink)
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    thanks again BootOn.

    burtons has a bit of a deal on 0.30" AE pistons at the moment... gunna ask them a few questions before i go shopping...


    what type of bottom end bearings did you end up gettting?
    or is this again a case of - get the machining done, then get some that fit?


    i want to have as much as i can prepared before i ask an engine builder (to avoid their mark-up)... :)

    #5
    Bloodyeck
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    RE: What Do I need? 2010/09/04 14:43:17 (permalink)
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    You are not going to know what bearings and the like you need until you strip the engine down and have everything property measured (preferably by someone who knows what they are doing). 0.030" pistons will not give you 1660. Buy some decent 0.090" over pistons and take it up to 1700. You'll really notice a difference. Buy the best quality parts you can afford.
    #6

    Avon
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    RE: What Do I need? 2010/09/04 15:27:42 (permalink)
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    Its going to take you a lot longer than a week because you really need to strip it down first to find out what you need before warming up the credit card.

    For example your cylinders might only need a hone, saving big $ on pistons. Also from memory you have a low compression engine? most of your upgrades will be worthless unless you get that sorted to high compression.

    #7
    cjdeane10
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    RE: What Do I need? 2010/09/04 15:56:35 (permalink)
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    thanks guys - much appreciated.

    yeah low comp engine... upping the compression with 1300 pistons is also a valid option...

    just wanted to know if my assumptions were in the ballpark...

    anyone have a spare good condition high compression 1600xflow motor lying around in WA?


    #8
    cjdeane10
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    RE: What Do I need? 2010/04/14 00:26:26 (permalink)
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    got a quote to entirely rebuild my 1600 for $3350 plus balancing... WTF

    hmmm... i dont think so
    #9
    Smcka
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    RE: What Do I need? 2010/04/14 08:56:24 (permalink)
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    I paid $2,000 just to balance, drill holes, supply bearings, gasket set and install unleaded valve seats. I supplied all other parts; that was just the machining cost.

    In addition to your list you will need a second 45 carb (1 is just a waste of time) but I would go 40's on a motor you sound like you will have.
    .050" steel oversize rocker posts.
    You do not need new rods but you should get ARP rod bolts.
    New clutch
    ARP flywheel bolts

    I spent well over $5,000 on my motor and that was buying the stuff wholesale and getting some bargains (like a Larner head for $500!). I actually stopped counting as it was too depressing [xx(]

    It comes down to how much money do you have, and how fast do you want to go?

    If I were to do it again, I'd probably stuff a Duratec in there. More power, better reliability and plug it in to a laptop to tune it
    #10
    fpv_escort
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    RE: What Do I need? 2010/04/14 13:06:37 (permalink)
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    It honestly depends what you want to do with it.

    I have an engine similar toy our spec, but i ported my own head, standard valves, single springs, 45mm weber, extractors, crow 51606 cam, 1300 pistons (40 thou over) and a bog standard bottom end (NO BALANCING).

    I club day race mine and it hasn't let me down yet, will rev to 6,500 sometimes 7,000 with no problem.

    I paid 300 for all machine work (bore, deck and chemical clean), then around 1,500 for parts then went in or on it.

    At the end of the day it probably owes me 2,000, although its relatively stock, its great, nice powerband, and as far as i know reliable.

    My advice would be, just don't get too carried away with other add ons, things that don't need doing. Just build it as an ultimate tight ass build, then go from there.

    Cheers
    #11
    cjdeane10
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    RE: What Do I need? 2010/04/15 14:59:09 (permalink)
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    Honestly, i was going to put aside $2000 for the build.

    I have the cam kit, the weber / intake, extractors and a stocka motor.

    I was hoping to see what i could get away with keeping as much as possible stock standard.

    it was the cam lift that hinted that i may need to modify the pistons, which then went onto the ol' 'whilst its open, what else should i change'.

    if i get the valve clearances sorted (modified or new pistons) and keep everything else stocka... i was hoping $2K would cover it...
    #12
    fpv_escort
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    RE: What Do I need? 2010/04/15 21:04:07 (permalink)
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    yeah that sounds good, just do what you can and go from there. Many people spend thousands on balancing and crack testing etc but if you haven't got the money, who cares?? You just have to take the risk!

    My theory is, I'd rather be having fun than getting a couple of extra horsepwoer here and there.
    #13
    cjdeane10
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    RE: What Do I need? 2010/04/16 12:48:56 (permalink)
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    thanks!

    based on my limited budget

    I think I will go with a reduced list (bottom end only);

    - buy a second-hand motor
    - strip motor and clean / chemical wash
    - machine block (+60tho) with new oversize pistons (+60tho) with machined valve reliefs
    - reassemble with new bearings
    - balancing

    then i will sort out the head / cam work later...

    will start shopping around to see if this can be done under $2K...
    #14
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