Forest arches are usually below the swage line. Tarmacs are a bit above, there are monte carlos which are massive. There is huge variation between each person. The ones I'm getting are halfway between the swage line and the window. The ones in the picture are a bit too high! The fronts are supposed to be the same (according to some sources) but fibreglass fronts seem to differ. The forests stay out at the bottom while the tarmacs go back in (much cleaner imho)