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Reward: 5Hot!POINTS VERSUS ELECTRONIC IGNITION

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BEEVEE
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2019/08/06 14:51:43 (permalink)
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POINTS VERSUS ELECTRONIC IGNITION

I have to smile when I read how many owners convert to CDI or even Electronic Ignition. (The ONLY reliable conversion I ever saw in my 50 years as a mechanic, was the Bosch Kit which is NLA). My 1978 XC 5,8 Falcon was the first ever Ozzie 351/5.8 to be factory fitted with Bosch EI (the 302/4.9 missed out) and has never had an issue in 41 years which totally blows my mind. Ditto for my 1985 DOHC Toy Crown 5MGE............. All my other cars on points have never had an issue in 50 years, and they were dailys until 25 years ago.  I know testing Condensers is a major key to reliability.  Test Coils every 20,000k too. 
I cannot see any advantage converting a Points Dizzy to Electronic for "red plate" road use.
 
I thought the above mind-set was due to my age/experience, but it turns out so many youngsters (18+) I meet with red plates are of the same opinion, after taking opinions at various public car meets.
 
Lack of service (5,000 kms at most) to points and condenser is even less problematic today as we hardly do 5% mileage we did back then as dailys. My 57 FE Holden gets easily started ONCE every 2 to 3 months for the last 25 years with NO issues. How many years go by today to complete 5,000kms in our "red plates" ?
 
We cannot race our cars on the road today as we got away with it years ago, so "point bounce" shouldnt be an issue unless making the police rich is your preference.
Even with CDI or EI, you still need to clean/service the Rotor and Dizzy Cap and centre shaft pivot and shaft bushes and advance weights and vacuum advance. 
 
Funny when I think back in 1978, as I planned holidays to drive the brand new XC 5.8L to Queensland 5 years in a row, how I packed spare parts to cover EVERYTHING imaginable; didn't use a thing then or now !
Also, Points & tested Condenser are so easy to carry & replace compared to items in EI. (Clean points before fitting)
 
Today, everything is made NOT TO LAST as it's "economically unsustainable we're told" ........  SO HOW E~ S~ IS THIS LOVELY STATE OF AFFAIRS WITH OUR KERBSIDE RUBBISH DISPOSAL  ........  so desperate are we that we try and send
thousands of tons at a time to China to avoid processing it, or send to LANDFILL here in Australia ! ......  is this for real ? 
 
May my parents rest in more peace than so many wasteful people: their 1952 Kelvinator Fridge is still going at my BMW Workshop and their 1957 FE Holden is still going today, and their 1963 GMH Frigidaire Washing machine died only a few years ago due to no parts available.  None of these 3 chunks of steel have gone to China only to come back as a Kia or Hyundai, and never will.
 
And all of us here are doing our bit by saving our much loved Vintage, Veteran and Classic Vehicles , and repairing their original parts where we can
post edited by BEEVEE - 2019/08/07 11:46:26

"GOOD BETTER BEST: NEVER LET IT REST: UNTIL YOUR GOOD IS BETTER, AND YOUR BETTER, BEST"
( Furphy WW1 HORSE-DRAWN water-tank end-plates)
#1
BEEVEE provided 5 reward points for the best answer

6 Replies Related Threads

    martymexico
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    Re: POINTS VERSUS ELECTRONIC IGNITION 2019/08/06 20:31:28 (permalink)
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    Gotta agree with the Bosch electronic ignition is super reliable.. I bought a new dizzy and amplifier set designed and used by Ford in the Sierra pinto ohc and Transit van etc of the 80s. I bought mine from Burton Power for a massive £45 plus postage to Aust way back in 1998 for my 2.1 pinto I was building , also bought a Omex rev limiter with led shift lights at the same time.
    I clocked over 100,000 km in my mk2 and much of the time it was chasing or racing others so the dizzy had a proper life and never faulted once even on icy frosted mornings the car would start almost instantly. I may have used up to 5 pinto motors in the old mk2 but I always kept the same dizzy and it's still there today.
    I have never cared for Mallory twin spark dizzys , just couldn't see the benefit..
    #2
    Flighter
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    Re: POINTS VERSUS ELECTRONIC IGNITION 2019/08/11 13:08:12 (permalink)
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    The downside to points (aside from occasional maintenance) is bounce; I immediately noticed how my car would rev higher once bounce was eliminated via the electronic ignition. The opto-coupler that replaced the points did leave me stranded once  when it died though.....

    WTB: Recaro seat - any condition considered
     
     
    #3

    BEEVEE
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    Re: POINTS VERSUS ELECTRONIC IGNITION 2019/08/11 23:52:29 (permalink)
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    For the last 5+ years that Ive owned my D-port V6, Ive never experienced point-bounce, and yes, I have had the car to 160 kph, with "lots to spare", and I have gone close to red line in every gear, on a few occassions.
     
    I use NOS Ign Parts on my old cars which I know are superior to modern repros, that I wouldnt use in an old Mower !
    Modern repro makers make them as cheap as possible as there's no competition now that these cars are no longer "dailys" where you expected to get 20,000 RELIABLE kilometres.
     
    Why didn't racing cars here and around the world suffer from point bounce ? Firstly, they had more tension on their oem quality point springs, secondly they knew how high to rev their engines thru the gears for maximum torque while maintaining full control of ignition point behaviour ; regardless of single or twin point design.
     
    Assuming youre not over-revving your engine (which only wears out your engine, increases fuel consumption, and attracts the cops, I'd say you've got inferior/worn repro points, and / or your shaft bushes are worn out.
    Also assuming your running everything STOCK.
     
    I'm still running the same points, cap, rotor, condenser, leads  the car came with 5 years ago !
    The OEM Bosch Coil is stamped 1972 with the oem part numbers from Bosch and Ford on it bottom !
    I just LOVE running my cars as they were made ..........  STOCK 
    This way, theres more chance I can enjoy driving them, instead of diagnosing faults/problems that arent there
    when left STOCK.
     
    I hope you take this humble opinion of mine in the best of intentions, as it's meant ............  cheers
     
     

    "GOOD BETTER BEST: NEVER LET IT REST: UNTIL YOUR GOOD IS BETTER, AND YOUR BETTER, BEST"
    ( Furphy WW1 HORSE-DRAWN water-tank end-plates)
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    martymexico
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    Re: POINTS VERSUS ELECTRONIC IGNITION 2019/08/12 19:07:42 (permalink)
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    There's good and bad in both, and if I was going for original GT or RS I will go points as intended. Going back some 15yrs I built up a mk1 Escort with pinto and it was a good reliable bus until the night she was on done country road and the points failed... It was the only item I didn't bring for the rescue so had to race home to get a set and race back 175kmh) both ways for 60kms at 2.30am , the problem she had was the hard plastic scraper on the points had broke off moving the spark to the crank/radiator.. Quite funny at the time. The only other time I've had a failure is the black wire got chewed up leaving me to door knock for a short length of speaker wire to get me mobile again...
    #5
    BEEVEE
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    Re: POINTS VERSUS ELECTRONIC IGNITION 2019/08/12 23:46:05 (permalink)
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    Yes  you're right Marty ............  if ever I would convert to Electronic, the Kit would have to be Original German Bosch  or nothing  ..........  all modern Bosch reproduction sold today is no longer German quality of yester-year, but made in 3rd world countries whilst prostituting the original Bosch name of the 50's to 80's & maybe early 90's
     
    Re "hard plastic scraper" breaking off; is it possible they were cheap repro modern points, or good originals, but had done over 20,000 mile ?  Scraper on good quality points should be a FIBROUS COMPOUND , which in my 50 years of fitting, I've never seen break. Did you clean and lube the cam lobes at least every 5000 mile if not more often ?
     

    "GOOD BETTER BEST: NEVER LET IT REST: UNTIL YOUR GOOD IS BETTER, AND YOUR BETTER, BEST"
    ( Furphy WW1 HORSE-DRAWN water-tank end-plates)
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    martymexico
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    Re: POINTS VERSUS ELECTRONIC IGNITION 2019/08/14 22:22:25 (permalink)
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    I'm not sure how old those points were but I can remember folding gone grade sandpaper and flatting the faces for borrowed time lol. When the motor was built I used high temp lithium grease lightly wiped on the lobes and also a drop of oil on the small round sponge thing under the rotor button . Having the scraper break must have been rare if you've never came across it .The points were changed at about once a year regardless of kms , remembering this is mid late 90s when stuff was still good... Before the Chinee take over of quality components..
    #7
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