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Sump removal / engine mounts

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GTV6
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Re: Sump removal / engine mounts 2017/12/28 20:54:26 (permalink)
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Wiggy333
 Because both are fixed the most stress will be achieved in the middle.



That's not correct.  If you were to draw a free body diagram of the system the mount is fixed at the cross member at its centre due to the bolted connection, pin supported at its edges at the cross member and free to move with the engine at the top making it a complex cantilever arrangement, which means max shear stress is at the cross member end at the bottom edge of the mount due to compression and bending forces applied by the weight of the engine.
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Darian
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Re: Sump removal / engine mounts 2017/12/28 22:05:53 (permalink)
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G'day Fellas,

Found a couple of photos on my phone.

Taken when looking at the exhaust but shows the mount.

A picture says a thousand words!

How they are on mine anyway. Engine never been out in the 30+ years I've owned it.

Doubtful out before that.

Metal cup on the bottom, hose between block and dipstick tube.

Appears to be getting a little "heavy" in this thread. Or am I mistaken?

Safe and Happy New Year to All.

Cheers,

DJC.

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Re: Sump removal / engine mounts 2017/12/28 23:49:49 (permalink)
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Now I know what Louis Pasteur went through

"GOOD BETTER BEST: NEVER LET IT REST: UNTIL YOUR GOOD IS BETTER, AND YOUR BETTER, BEST"
( Furphy WW1 HORSE-DRAWN water-tank end-plates)
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Re: Sump removal / engine mounts 2017/12/29 16:06:33 (permalink)
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Thanks for the pics Darian. If Ford had put one in their manual we would not be having this "serious" conversation. Show me another smallford forum where the detail is discussed like on here.
When i assembled my capri back in 2010 i had to decide whether to put the cups on top or below.  I decided to put them underneath based on nothing more than a hazy memory from the early seventies. So it was a nostalgic decision not one based on all the amazing technical stuff in this thread.
Now seven years on and there has been none of the potential problems mentioned above. And i am still happy with my choice.
Two things i think are worth mentioning.
1. The cup fitted to the crossmember fixes it in place, the edge of the cup being about 5mm from the steering column on my car. If the cup was fitted on top it would move around as the mount took the load of the engine in driving, occasionaly hitting the steering column. For this reason and possibly others i think ford would have originaly fitted the cup under the mount.
2. Its easier to inspect the condition of the mount with the cup fitted under as its clearly visible.
Thats my two bobs worth, "serious but civil"..........cheers,...ron.
post edited by ronsmallford - 2017/12/29 16:15:21

"Horsepower loves the absense of weight" (from Elfin ad)
"The car that reshapes your life".(Ford ad)
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Re: Sump removal / engine mounts 2017/12/29 17:19:54 (permalink)
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Youre right Wiggy..........the cups-to-mount gap on mine are at least 2-3 mm defeating any argument that they support any shear forces is MY GUESS
 
If mounts were touching Cups, itd be MY GUESS theyve begun to fail and squash down-and-out

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Johnscapris
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Re: Sump removal / engine mounts 2017/12/29 17:44:46 (permalink)
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Forum Members,
 
I would like to add my one cents worth to this discussion.
 
The Cups sit on top of the engine mount and are installed this way for the following 2 reasons and only these 2 reasons as explained to me my a Ford UK engineer in the 70's when i was having issues with breaking mounts when using higher torque engines:
      1.  Look closely at the mount contact areas with the crossmember and the metal engine mount bracket.  The crossmember supports most of the rubber where as the top supports approx 18%.  The cup on top is more effective in spreading the load over the rubber which then prevents rubber distortion
      2.  In the early days it was the norm that if you gave the capri a bit of stick, the mount rubber would break in half.  The cup on top would then prevent the engine moving off the mounts which then would prevent the engine sump from falling onto the steering rack.  Could be fatel if the rack became bent and locked up.
 
I have an engine removed from a damaged 2 month old capri (travelled only 867kms) and the cups are fitted on the top.
 
Regards and seasons greetings,
John
 
 
 
 
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Re: Sump removal / engine mounts 2017/12/29 18:00:48 (permalink)
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Thanks JohnsCapris
 
"I rest my case for the defence"  ..............  my exact point I outlined in "bold" as you highlight in your No1 Point
 
and further backed up by your experience with that 2 month old Engine
 
ONLY CUP AT TOP CAN GIVE 1OO% SUPPORT   UNDER ALL CONDITIONS   TO TOP OF MOUNT AS FLAT AREA OF X-MEMBER GIVES 100% SUPPORT AT BOTTOM OF MOUNT
 
I dibs my hat to you.
 
Bernie

"GOOD BETTER BEST: NEVER LET IT REST: UNTIL YOUR GOOD IS BETTER, AND YOUR BETTER, BEST"
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Re: Sump removal / engine mounts 2017/12/29 18:05:56 (permalink)
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 Took me a fair while to write my last post as I was squirming around on floor with sides SPLITTING when I
 
saw   johnscapris   post which should put pay to my GUESS !!!!!!!!!!
 
I HAVEN'T LAUGHED THIS HARD, AND FOR SO LONG, IN A LONG TIME  !!!!!!!!  thanks John !!!!!
 

"GOOD BETTER BEST: NEVER LET IT REST: UNTIL YOUR GOOD IS BETTER, AND YOUR BETTER, BEST"
( Furphy WW1 HORSE-DRAWN water-tank end-plates)
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GTV6
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Re: Sump removal / engine mounts 2017/12/29 19:23:26 (permalink)
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Johnscapris
   
In the early days it was the norm that if you gave the capri a bit of stick, the mount rubber would break in half.  The cup on top would then prevent the engine moving off the mounts which then would prevent the engine sump from falling onto the steering rack.  Could be fatel if the rack became bent and locked up.



I can see how the current full depth support cups would do that, but I cant see how the half depth mounts would secure the engine if a mount broke, they are too shallow.  The top half of the mount would simply slide off, cup or no cup.  Are you sure he wasn't talking about the current ones? 
 
I'm curious about which side would break was it a compressive fail or tensile fail?.
 
 
Calm down Bernie, he didn't mention anything about it being a heat shield which was the primary basis of your reasoning.
post edited by GTV6 - 2017/12/29 20:43:27
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