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Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto

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Matt75
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2012/04/17 21:32:02 (permalink)
5 (1)

Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto

Hi Guys,
 
Thought I'd post up how I went about collecting the parts and getting the whole thing together.
 
Step 1.  Get your hands on the carbs.  I went for R1's as they have 40mm chokes and seem to be the most popular.  Mine are from '99 as after 2001 they went to fuel injection.
 

 
Step 2.  Manifold.  I got mine made from alloy through MartyMexico.  He used a inlet gasket to make the manifold plate and then the runners were made from there.
 

2012-02-17_19.44
 
Step 3.  Accelerator cable.  I got a universal cable from SMCKA so it fit onto the pedal and then the solderless screw nipple fit pefectly onto the carb end
 

 
Step 4.  Choke cable.  Any universaal one will do but you'll need another solderless screw nipple to fit it to the carbs
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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My 4 door MK II Resto
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#1


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    Matt75
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    Re:Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto 2012/04/17 21:37:11 (permalink)
    0
    Step 5.  Fuel pump.  The carbs need a low fuel pressure (2 -3 psi) so the standard pump is no good.  So you'll need one from a bike that has the same size carbs.  Mine is off a R1 as well so I know there won't be any fuel pressure issues.  Some people retain the standad fuel pump but use a regulator but I prefer just the one bike pump.  They have a pressure cut out so when the carbs are full the pump cuts out.
     
    Most people who have issues with these carbs come down to incorrect fuel pressure.  These carbs only need around 2psi.  


     
    Step 6.  Carb mounting runners.  These are fluro lined silicone so they won't break down when in contact with fuel.
     

     
    Edit - The above runners ended up perishing due to the petrol.  Whilst the internal is protected the outside was ruined so I got a set of the OEM rubbers from eBay and they seal a greal deal better too.



    post edited by Matt75 - 2012/07/23 17:27:31

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    #2
    Matt75
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    Re:Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto 2012/04/17 21:46:13 (permalink)
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    Step 7.  You need to remove the float bowl covers to get at the main jets.  These need to be removed and then drilled out to 1.8mm.
     
    2012-02-19_19.55
     
    As my carbs were form the USA they had the mixture screws blocked as in the photo.
     

     
    But once drilled out and a screw inserted the plug came out leaving this
     

     
    Turn the mixture crews all the way in then out 3 full turns.  This will give a basic mixture to allow you to start the car
    Turn over the carbs and remove the black plastice carb tops to get at the needle jets underneath.  Remove the needle jest and make sure the circlip is in the middle groove.  (Sorry I didn't take pics of this part)
     
     
     
    post edited by Matt75 - 2012/07/23 17:28:26

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    Matt75
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    Re:Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto 2012/04/17 21:48:36 (permalink)
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    Now mount the carbs on the manifold
     
    2012-02-24 14... (Medium)
    2012-02-24 14... (Medium)
     
    Clear out the old carb and then mount the new ones
     
       
     
    Attach the fuel lines (disregard the left fuel line.  I thought it was the return line but it's not needed)
     
    2012-02-25 17... (Medium)
     
    And that's pretty much it
     

     

     
    post edited by Matt75 - 2012/04/17 22:01:56

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    Matt75
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    Re:Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto 2012/04/17 22:10:55 (permalink)
    0
    Nothing left now but to hook up the choke and accelerator cable.
     
    Mine started first go believe it or not.  Sounds crazy good.  Quite a simple mod too.
     
    All up it probably cost me $600 but if you can make the manifold yourself this would nearly halve.
     
    Next step is to get it tuned properly.
     
    Cheers,
     
    Matt 

     
    My 4 door MK II Resto
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    stuart h
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    Re:Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto 2012/04/17 23:24:44 (permalink)
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    what time to post this i was just looking at what need to be done!!!
     
    i hope you meant 1.8mm for the jet size??
    Also what angle do the carbs need to be from the block?
     
    and what are the brass fitting for in the runners?
     
    thanks for the info so far ill be interested in how it runs!
     
    stu
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    stuart h
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    Re:Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto 2012/04/17 23:31:52 (permalink)
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    Also do you know what the carbs are spaced at?
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    Wozzah
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    Re:Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto 2012/04/18 00:11:18 (permalink)
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    I have used these on a couple of engines, one road going pinto, and a 105E Anglia.  In both cases after tuning they work very well.  There was a tweak my carby man did to them to make them more pleasant as part throttle, will post it on here when I quiz him as to what it was.  We drilled the main as listed here (not sure on size) and made WOT mixtures right, then tuned the rest around that.  Used the standard fuel pump in both cases with no issues.  They work brilliantly
     
    Cheers
    Woz

    Mk1 RS2000 replica (IP hillclimb car) fitted with Ford Laser 1.8 DOHC (BP) Cossy cams, Webers, 230hp
    EB XR8 5sp, heads, cam, extractors.
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    Matt75
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    Re:Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto 2012/04/18 08:49:26 (permalink)
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    Hi Stuart,
     
    Yes, I meant 1.8mm.  
     
    The angle doesn't really matter I am led to believe but ideally you want to have them so the float bowls are horizontal.  At a guess mine are on about 45deg angle.
     
    The brass fittings are vaccuum takeoffs for the brake servo.
     
    As to the spacing i am not too sure.  But I wouldn't pull them apart to change it.  I would just make the manifold to suit once you had the carbs to hand.  I have a drawing I can email you as I tried to post it but it's a PDF file and won't upload.
     
    You can get the manifold from the UK for $180GBP inc postage.
     
    Woz, Any extra tips would be awesome.
     
    Cheers
     
    Matt

     
    My 4 door MK II Resto
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    RS Owners Club Victoria Committee Member - http://rsocvic.com/
     
     
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    Matt75
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    Re:Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto 2012/04/18 10:15:57 (permalink)
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    Here is a quick guide on how to synch the carbs before bolting them on - 
     
    To bench synch the carbs. Pull the carbs, run the idle knob all the way in to open up the butterflys. Using a the smooth end of a tiny drill bit as a feeler guage, adjust carbs 1 & 2, than 3 & 4, than 
    make sure the two sets are matched by using the center adj. screw and guaging carbs 2 & 3. Once finished, back the idle adj knob all the way out, and then screw in untill you see the butterflys just move. This should set you back to just about correct on idle.

    Now more fun Provided the the carbs are bench synched with great precision and patience, there are no vacuum leaks, and you own a carb synch, you can now go back and re-synch the carbs using the idle mixture screws. This will be touchy, as very small variations in the screws will be 
    needed to get all the carbs mixed evenly. Isolate the synch from vibration by holding it up on something other than the handlebar. Adjust the idle mixture screws ever so slightly to even out any variation that the synch shows. Gently increase rpm, and you should notice the synch rise more evenly than before. And there should be little if any variation in synch levels at 3k rpm. The bike should cruise at 1/8 throttle much smoother now. And all light handed acceleration will be much stronger too. Ideally, an Exhaust Gas Analyzer should be used to do this. The nice type that reads CO2 and give stoichemetric burn ratios is the best way to make sure the carbs are super dialed. 
     
    Cheers
     
    Matt

     
    My 4 door MK II Resto
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    Wozzah
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    Re:Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto 2012/04/18 12:16:33 (permalink)
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    I beleive the Pinto set I did had spacers to get the spacing closer.  The manifold was a fabbed item from the UK.  The carbs came with the main jet already bigger (1.9mm-2mm from memory)
     
    The engine was one of my mild road car packages, made 95rwkw on the dyno i use (143fwhp).
     
    Overall, the wide open throttle mixtures were basically spot on, but at part throttle and just off idle it was hesitating.  This was rectified by drilling the pilot jet, from memory 2 sizes (we remember having the carbs off twice).
     
    It is important they are mounted on the correct angle (as they would sit on a bike) which would appear to be about where you have them.
     
    Cheers
    Woz

    Mk1 RS2000 replica (IP hillclimb car) fitted with Ford Laser 1.8 DOHC (BP) Cossy cams, Webers, 230hp
    EB XR8 5sp, heads, cam, extractors.
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    Matt75
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    Re:Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto 2012/04/18 12:23:01 (permalink)
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    Thanks Woz,
     
    Did you do adjust the needle jets at all?
     
    Any pics?
     
    What are your thoughts on these vs webers?  From all my reading it seems there is not really much in it but that properly set up webers (meaning dyno'd) may be better for all out race cars where most of the time you are at WOT where as the bike carbs are a bit friendlier around town.
     
    Cheers
     
    Matt
     

     
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    http://www.classic-ford.org/cfp/tm.aspx?m=37623

    RS Owners Club Victoria Committee Member - http://rsocvic.com/
     
     
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    Wozzah
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    Re:Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto 2012/04/18 13:14:41 (permalink)
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    Matt75

    Thanks Woz,

    Did you do adjust the needle jets at all?

    Any pics?

    What are your thoughts on these vs webers?  From all my reading it seems there is not really much in it but that properly set up webers (meaning dyno'd) may be better for all out race cars where most of the time you are at WOT where as the bike carbs are a bit friendlier around town.

    Cheers

    Matt


     
    From memory the needles were left alone.  When we finished the tune on it it would literally pull from 1500 rpm right through to 6500 without any problem and was quite pleasant to drive.
     
    I don't have any pictures, and the owner sold the car off a while ago sorry.  I beleive it ended up in NSW.
     
    In regard to these versus webers I haven't had the opportunity to do some real back to back tests.  Because of the angle they have to be mounted on I beleive that the webers have a better entry angle in relation to the port, especially on a Pinto.  This doesn't effect other engines however.  In regard to flow and how the carbs work etc, and power, in my opinion they are just as good.  The design makes them very drivable down low (better than webers) whilst still retaining good flow up top.  I think you would probably reach flow potential given the right engine though.  I'm keen to play around with a set on one of my more powerful engine builds at some stage, but I think they would start to fall over at anything over a genuine 170-180fwhp.  I could be wrong.
     
    Cheers,
    Woz

    Mk1 RS2000 replica (IP hillclimb car) fitted with Ford Laser 1.8 DOHC (BP) Cossy cams, Webers, 230hp
    EB XR8 5sp, heads, cam, extractors.
    http://www.facebook.com/p...rmance/135194779879292
    #13
    Matt75
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    Re:Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto 2012/04/18 13:22:04 (permalink)
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    Bang for buck they are pretty hard to beat.
     
    Cheers
     
    matt

     
    My 4 door MK II Resto
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    RS Owners Club Victoria Committee Member - http://rsocvic.com/
     
     
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    Wozzah
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    Re:Yamaha R1 Bike Carbs on a Pinto 2012/04/18 14:28:06 (permalink)
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    Matt75

    Bang for buck they are pretty hard to beat.

    Cheers

    matt

     
    Absolutely, I wouldn't hesitate in using another set at all.
     
    Woz


    Mk1 RS2000 replica (IP hillclimb car) fitted with Ford Laser 1.8 DOHC (BP) Cossy cams, Webers, 230hp
    EB XR8 5sp, heads, cam, extractors.
    http://www.facebook.com/p...rmance/135194779879292
    #15
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