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Focus ST170 fuel supply issue

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Mk2_2dr_2L
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Re:Focus ST170 fuel supply issue 2011/11/29 21:50:26 (permalink)
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HAHA, If it was a Holden I would have burnt it too, not that I am ruling that out for the focus yet.. But at least I would have been able to buy another commodore for $250 and be on my way again !
 
Ok, so had a bit of a fiddle tonight..
 
Found a table giving me reference voltages to fuel pressures at the fuel rail pressure Sensor (FRP)

http://www.feoa.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=71016



I put a multi-meter across the vref and the signal return wire on the fuel rail pressure sensor and I got 3.62V at idle, once driving the car and putting it under load the Voltage drops and thus the fuel pressure drops, nothing new I know (Will get a  mech gauge on there eventually to confirm.. But ford have verified this, so hopefully they have done one decent thing for the $$$$ i have given them).
 
I bridged the vref and the signal return and there was no change, I also tried removing the vac hose and there was no difference. So at least a vacuum issue and the FRP sensor should be ruled out once and for all.
 
I also checked the 5v 'frp signal' wire and it remained at a pretty well constant 4.9v under all conditions.

I have to remove the 'special' bolt preventing me from removing the harness plug off of the ecu so I can find the vref wire going into the ecu. I am thinking that I will bridge this wire between the sensor and the ecu and I will also ground the signal return to a good ground, hopefully this will rule out a wiring issue.

I can't seem to remove the bolt holding the ECU harness cover on,I think I am going to have to grind it off.

I will also try to check what is going on to the pump in the next couple of days. I don't know if the multimeter will tell me much.. but I guess if the readings don't change when I put my foot down the issue is upstream of the pump, if there is a change noted I should be looking at the pump (Like you said Phil). I have changed the pump twice so the likeliness of an issue in there is hopefully next to nothing.

Cheers.

Cheers.
#31
tybrown
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Re:Focus ST170 fuel supply issue 2011/11/29 23:29:10 (permalink)
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Hey Damo
Sorry to hear about the issues. 
How old is your battery? check fluid levels? put it on charge overnight. i dying battery can cause fault codes to pop up and make all sorts happen...
my wifes focus was playing up... i set up an obd diagnostic and it never showed any fault codes.. ended up being the coil pack.. car cutting out at higher rpm but ok cruising etc
it may not be fuel related? id try disconnecting the battery and charging it then resetting the ecu/connect charged battery and see what happens?
#32
Mk2_2dr_2L
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Re:Focus ST170 fuel supply issue 2011/12/04 17:02:55 (permalink)
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Hey Ty,
 
Yeah apparently coil packs are a common issue on those things.
 
It is definitely a fuel pressure issue on my car. I got home this afternoon and connected up a mechanical fuel gauge and a multimeter to the +ve and negative wires that go to the fuel pump. But unfortunately the car seemed to be running ok today.
 
the multimeter was reading constant voltages from about 6v to 12v when I was under the hammer, the fuel pressures seemed a little low between 30 and 40 psi. I will take the car for a better drive tomorrow night if I get home at a reasonable hour.
#33

Phil
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Re:Focus ST170 fuel supply issue 2011/12/04 17:32:47 (permalink)
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30 psi is probably about right off load and with a lower voltage output from the controller. I think you will see even lower pressures when it actually plays up.
 
Cheers,
 
Phil.

Boost...The Natural Enemy of Traction!!!
#34
Mk2_2dr_2L
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Re:Focus ST170 fuel supply issue 2011/12/05 20:08:14 (permalink)
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Hi Phil,
 
If the Fuel rail pressure sensor is telling me the truth (which I believe is likely at this point) fuel pressures drop down to 0 if I stay on it, at which point the car cuts out. This was from the tests I was doing prior to having the mechanical gauge on there.
 
I just cut into a power source at the rear of the centre console and connected it straight to the fuel pump and bam! there was an instant 60+ PSI to the fuel rail and the multimeter was only reading 10. something volts, whereas yesterday it was reading 11.5 odd volts and only seeing 30psi or less when I was under it, but I guess that must not be a constant voltage and my multimeter is not quick enough to pick up the cycling on and off of the pump?
 
At least I know the pump is capable of producing that sort of pressure now. And the fuel pressure is holding constant pressure at the rail once the power is off at the pump, so that should rule out any issues downstream of the fuel rail.
 
Hopefully I am narrowing down now.
#35
joeyjonsey
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Re:Focus ST170 fuel supply issue 2011/12/05 21:06:17 (permalink)
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does it have an alarm wired into it ?
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Mk2_2dr_2L
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Re:Focus ST170 fuel supply issue 2011/12/05 21:09:40 (permalink)
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Hi joeyjonsey,
 
Just the factory alarm.
 
Cheers.
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Peelo
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Re:Focus ST170 fuel supply issue 2011/12/06 12:14:03 (permalink)
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Mk2_2dr_2L

Hi Phil,

Yeah you are probably right, to be honest I am running out of options now.

The blokes at Byrne Ford in Kedron admitted to me that I probably know more about what is going on with the car than they do.. which is sad as I don't know much! Worse still, the last time I got the car back from them it was pissing out fuel from the fuel line which connects to the fuel rail as they had damaged the sealing surface for the O Rings !!

I definitely know that the issue is with the fuel pressure dropping to absolutely nothing under load once the car warms up. I have seen the fuel pressure on the OBD personally and ford tell me it is the same story with a mechanical gauge connected.

The other thing is that if I turn the car off and restart it, it runs fine (ie I can drive it flat out up a hill without the same issue) for a period of time. The period the car runs ok after a restart varies in relation to how long I have been driving the car.. The warmer the car is, the less time the car will run without an issue.

Phil, if you fancy a holiday up to Brisbane, let me know ! As I am done with giving my hard earned money to people that are only guessing.

Cheers,

Damion

OK - On a back to basics theme ....
Car goes OK when cold - crook when hot.
Can it be a fuel vapourisation issue?
Have you got a fuel line routed close to a heat source?  Exhaust manifold or exhaust pipe?
 
Cheers,
 
Pete
#38
Mk2_2dr_2L
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Re:Focus ST170 fuel supply issue 2011/12/06 20:44:21 (permalink)
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Hi Pete,
 
Not that I am aware of, the exhaust system runs down the passenger side of the car and the fuel lines run down the drivers side.
 
I will jack the car up and have a good look on Saturday.
post edited by Mk2_2dr_2L - 2011/12/06 21:23:03
#39
TEX
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Re:Focus ST170 fuel supply issue 2011/12/14 10:03:04 (permalink)
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I thought i'd throw this out there, I have heard the vct solenoid can be troublesome, not sure of the symptoms it produces in your car, but in mine it makes the car run rough and loose power up top, this was because the computer was not actuating it.  It should be simple to test as there is a connector to disable it (under the black cover). With it removed it should be in the off position and may reproduce the symptoms you are experiencing when its hot. Maybe the heat soaks into this and stops it working properly..
4 x 8mm bolts and undo the plug. Maybe even try it once its running and from cold start.

Disclaimer, I dont think it will hurt anything, but.....
 
#40
Mk2_2dr_2L
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Re:Focus ST170 fuel supply issue 2011/12/17 14:09:50 (permalink)
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Hi Matt, 
 
Thanks for the tip. Not sure if that could cause the issue I am having, but I am running out of options now, so might be worth a try.
 
I tried another ECU in the car and it didn't change the issue. So I bit the bullet and wired the pump to an auxilary power source. I did the test after the car had been running for some time (as the issue is only when the car is hot). This saw 60psi at idle, but a similar low pressure issue occured when under load...
 
I ran another fuel line down the length of the car this morning and it ran for over an hour (much longer than normal) before an issue arose.. But an issue arose.
 
I think I have no other option other than to remove the tank again and have a good look in there. Just can't put my finger on as to why it only happens when it is hot.
 
Does anyone know what are the signs of a blocked Cat converter are ? And what would happen if I was to unplug the O2 sensor? Would the O2 sensor lean the car out if the cat was blocked? But I guess if I direct wired the pump I can rule out the O2 sensor.
 
Cheers,
 
Damion
post edited by Mk2_2dr_2L - 2011/12/17 14:13:05
#41
Ford_Escort
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Re:Focus ST170 fuel supply issue 2011/12/17 15:55:58 (permalink)
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Blocked cat, Car would be hard to start, and also it woudn't rev out. Really depends how blocked it is.
My XF used to have a sort of similair issue. Got hot loss of power and ping a bit. Sometimes when driving I would cycle the ignition adn fixed it. I eventually got the ****s and held it flat up a hit.... It then spat and popped the catalytic converter out the rear tail pipe Mine wasn;t hard to start tho...
#42
Mk2_2dr_2L
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Re:Focus ST170 fuel supply issue 2011/12/17 16:41:48 (permalink)
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Interesting, mine will happily rev to 7000rpm when it has fuel pressure, haha.
 
I am going to go back to square one. I have dropped the tank and I am going to put the original fuel pump back in and see how the car behaves.. If it behaves the same I can hopefully safely look elsewhere.
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blackmk1cossie
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Re:Focus ST170 fuel supply issue 2011/12/17 19:02:46 (permalink)
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one more thing to try , have you looked at intake or temp sensor. just incase it is reading high temps and shutting down
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Re:Focus ST170 fuel supply issue 2011/12/18 00:38:56 (permalink)
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Hi blackmk1cossie, the only temp sensor I can find is on the thermostat housing. I know that this sensor controls the gauge and fans, but I am not sure if it is the coolant temp sensor for the ecu. I tried disconnecting it to see what happened but no change unfortunately.
#45
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