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spongey brake pedal

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Sterling
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RE: spongey brake pedal 2010/01/24 19:23:49 (permalink)
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well mk1 lotus, i tried your elimination technique again,

this is with the NEW master;

only have one clamp, so yeah,

rear - no difference

front r/h - firmer pedal

front l/h - firmer pedal...

what can it be pointing to if the spongey feel is coming from the front?

the calipers were supposedly reconditioned, and had smcka's spacer kit to clamp onto a vented (fatter) rotor installed.

??????

thanks guys. ALMOST ROADWORTHY!!
#46
Phil
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RE: spongey brake pedal 2010/01/24 19:57:53 (permalink)
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Sterling, it sounds like they just need a good bleed. You cant bleed properly without 2 people or a brake pedal clamp as used when doing a caster swing on a wheel aligner

You need someone on the pedal and someone at the caliper/wheel cylinder.

Sequence goes from the longest pipe run to the shortest. Typically LHR,RHR,LHF,RHF for an escort or cortina.

Pump the pedal,then hold it down,crack the bleed nipple,let it bleed out,tighten nipple,pump the pedal.Repeat the process several times at each bleed nipple until no air comes out. Go round the car 2 or 3 times if necessary. All this is a waste of time if you have a leak, make sure you dont have a leak first
#47
Sterling
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RE: spongey brake pedal 2010/01/24 20:18:09 (permalink)
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well i did have two people, one time with me at the wheels, and the second time we swapped, and i was in the car working the brake.

ill just keep playing with it till theres no air then.

stephan is going to borrow the "one man" brake bleeder for me 2moro from his work (the air blower type)

these any good?

---------

and how can i test for a leak? im assuming brake systems can leak without actually seeing anything on the floor. get a mate to press the pedal and see if i can hear a hiss under the car or something?
#48

rs31mark
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RE: spongey brake pedal 2010/01/24 20:46:52 (permalink)
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Sorry to jump in on this link, a really silly question with your bleeding problems. You mentioned you fitted 2 new calipers, have you fitted them up the correct way? Sounds stupid but it is easily done, bleed nipple too the top, otherwise air will get stuck in caliper and you won't get it out. In response to what order to bleed, i've found that it doesn't make that much difference. I'm saying about the calipers as i did this on my rs, took me age's to "sus" the problem!!!
#49
Phil
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RE: spongey brake pedal 2010/01/24 20:54:20 (permalink)
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quote:
Originally posted by Sterling

well i did have two people, one time with me at the wheels, and the second time we swapped, and i was in the car working the brake.

ill just keep playing with it till theres no air then.

stephan is going to borrow the "one man" brake bleeder for me 2moro from his work (the air blower type)

these any good?

---------

and how can i test for a leak? im assuming brake systems can leak without actually seeing anything on the floor. get a mate to press the pedal and see if i can hear a hiss under the car or something?


Im not a fan of the vaccum brake bleeder, they really arent any good unless your flushing an already properly bled system. The only type of air operated bleeder that is any good is a pressure bleed system that fits onto the reservoir and forces air through...I have not seen one of these available for years,usually you make your own.

To check for leaks you need to visually inspect every inch of hose,line etc including wheel cylinders, calipers and master cylinders. The area that is leaking will be damp with brake fluid.

It wouldn't be the first time a caliper was put on upside down...are the bleed nipples at the top?

Are you sure the rear shoes are correctly adjusted?

Cheers,

Phil.
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Sterling
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RE: spongey brake pedal 2010/01/24 21:03:36 (permalink)
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well im no longer into the automotive trade as far as work goes...

but as far as i can tell yeah, the handbrake shaft u move a really small amount and it locks the drum (on p/s, just imitated on d/s)

lever is about 6-7 clicks upward.

and the hose clamp on the rear hose didn't change the pedal feel at all.

ill inspect the calipers and lines.

rs31mark, you may be onto something so ill go have a look.

thanks for the help phil.
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Sterling
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RE: spongey brake pedal 2010/01/24 21:20:03 (permalink)
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well, quick look in the darkness, calipers definately arent upside down.
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Sterling
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RE: spongey brake pedal 2010/01/24 21:50:55 (permalink)
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well talking to a mate i met off the forum, rekons the caliper spacers from smcka's kit, that involves the fluid O-RINGS, may be leaking.....

otherwise yeah, back to base 1, ill just have to give it some more time bleeding.
#53
Phil
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RE: spongey brake pedal 2010/01/24 22:22:08 (permalink)
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That will be very obvious if thats the case...I dont think that will be your problem, a leak will typically cause a sinking pedal,not a spongey pedal
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rs31mark
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RE: spongey brake pedal 2010/01/24 22:46:24 (permalink)
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Have to agree with Phil, if you had a leak unless it was a major leak you'd still be able too bleed the brakes, you'd as phil says have a sinking pedal.When you open the bleed nipple do you get a good "shot" of fluid?
#55
Mickas
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RE: spongey brake pedal 2010/01/24 23:15:30 (permalink)
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Have you bled the master off the car??
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Sterling
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RE: spongey brake pedal 2010/01/25 06:45:43 (permalink)
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quote:
Originally posted by Mickas

Have you bled the master off the car??


no, i installed it, and filled the resevoir. then bled the system
#57
Mickas
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RE: spongey brake pedal 2010/01/25 10:08:18 (permalink)
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Don't you think the angle of the master, it would trap air in the end of it?? Just for shyts and giggles take it off, bleed it in a bench vice then block the holes and wack it back on.
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hoogs544
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RE: spongey brake pedal 2010/01/25 22:45:08 (permalink)
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I was taught to always "bench bleed" a master cylinder (in a vice) before fitting, but it can be done on the car by normal bleeding methods by cracking the flare fittings into the master cylinder instead of the bleed nipples on the calipers. This may take some time and several attempts to rid the MC of air. Then always bleed brakes from the point furtherest from the MC to the closest. Dont take any chances with brakes. Any mechanic can help you from destroying your car and yourself.........
#59
Mickas
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RE: spongey brake pedal 2010/01/26 14:42:29 (permalink)
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quote:
Originally posted by hoogs544

I was taught to always "bench bleed" a master cylinder (in a vice) before fitting, but it can be done on the car by normal bleeding methods by cracking the flare fittings into the master cylinder instead of the bleed nipples on the calipers. This may take some time and several attempts to rid the MC of air. Then always bleed brakes from the point furtherest from the MC to the closest. Dont take any chances with brakes. Any mechanic can help you from destroying your car and yourself.........



Yes you can bleed some on cars but if you look at the angle of the escort one it should be off car bled.
#60
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