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Opinions on approach to resto wanted

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Flighter
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2012/11/10 20:31:51 (permalink)
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Opinions on approach to resto wanted

Hi all,
 
I'm about to get cracking on getting the body of my Escort up to snuff before having a full re-spray done.  Whilst I hope to achieve a high standard, it won't be a show car or used on the track; just a nice street cruiser.
 
I've spoken with some pros about the body work, and unsurprisingly have been recommended to go completely bare shell inside and out and top to bottom, so they can rust-proof the s**t out of it using all manner of exotic materials.  I don't have a blank cheque book, so would have to tackle as much of the stripping as possible at home.  
 
I'd like your opinions on the benefits or otherwise of stripping all the soundproofing/ sealer off the underside and cabin floor.  I love seeing all those gleaming, painted interior panels, but mine will be covered with carpet and vinyl, so wouldn't get to enjoy it beyond a few photos, and knowing that I'd done all I can to minimise future rust of course.  And if I pull the sound proofing off, I would probably want to replace it with something, as I'm not keen on getting extra noise from the exhaust system and have panels buzzing as I cruise along.
 
I know the car's history so I'm not expecting any significant rust issues, but am considering giving it the full treatment all the same.  It's big money so I'm looking for your thoughts and experiences so that I keep things in perspective.  Recommendations on sound proofing products would be welcome too.
 
Thanks in advance.
 
P.S. if anyone in Perth has a jig available for purchase or hire, please do let me know, as that might be just the encouragement I need to do the underside.
 
 
#1


16 Replies Related Threads

    Matt75
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    Re:Opinions on approach to resto wanted 2012/11/10 20:52:57 (permalink)
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    To get the sealer off the floor I have heard of guys using dry ice to freeze it then it just lifts off with a chisel.  I did it once just with a hammer and chisel but it took a while. 
     
    I would get it sand / soda blasted so you can identify any issues and fix them properly now so you don't have any future issues to deal with.
     
    Good luck.
     
    Matt

     
    My 4 door MK II Resto
    http://www.classic-ford.org/cfp/tm.aspx?m=37623

    RS Owners Club Victoria Committee Member - http://rsocvic.com/
     
     
    #2
    Gdub
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    Re:Opinions on approach to resto wanted 2012/11/11 06:52:50 (permalink)
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    If you are going to go back to bare metal i would strip the car and send the shell off to get blasted. Forget trying to bare metal it at home using paint stripper or the electric sander. That sees most of even the keenest people loose interest and abort the project.
     
    This way it will come back clean and ready for any repairs.

    Make it go FASTER!
     
    #3

    Flighter
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    Re:Opinions on approach to resto wanted 2012/11/11 11:29:24 (permalink)
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    The pro recommended getting it sandblasted, but said it's best stripped chemically as much as possible first.  This would mean that the blaster doesn't have to work as hard at the job, meaning just a light finishing blast and hence much less chance of stretching the metal or cuts through it.  If nothing else, he said to strip the flattest sections at home, saving for the blaster all the complicated areas that are awkward to do properly and are inherently stronger due to their shape.
     
    I've yet to hear of a universally approved form of blasting though.  For instance, soda blasting is said to require exceptional cleanliness afterwards or the paint won't adhere properly, sand can warp panels, plastic beads continue to appear for years afterwards (although why sand wouldn't is a mystery to me) etc.  Despite this, I'm almost certain I will have some blasting done; just don't know what kind and how extensively yet.  Anybody know how well a blaster can cut through all the junk on the underside?
    #4
    SaggaRS
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    Re:Opinions on approach to resto wanted 2012/11/11 12:49:10 (permalink)
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    What model Escort??
    I think PeterM did the underside his white 2 door RS himself. Find out how he went about it.

    CheeRS Shaul,

    1980 MKII RS2000
    http://www.classic-ford.org/cfp/tm.aspx?m=16455
    #5
    Flighter
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    Re:Opinions on approach to resto wanted 2012/11/11 13:51:19 (permalink)
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    SaggaRS

    What model Escort??
    I think PeterM did the underside his white 2 door RS himself. Find out how he went about it.

    It's a 2 door Mk 2, which makes it a bit simpler to strip regardless of method used.  Thanks for the tip about PeterM's car.
    #6

    MK1_Oz
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    Re:Opinions on approach to resto wanted 2012/11/11 17:46:17 (permalink)
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    I can only offer opinion based on my personal experience.  When building my tarmac rally car I stripped the car then had the shell sandblasted (excluding the larger flat areas that could warp).  About $550 inside and out.  I was amazed at how many suspect areas showed up after blasting.  Means more work in the short term BUT at least you know there is no rust remaining.  Remember, snad blasting (or soda blasting) will get into all the pin holes and scratches and get every bit of rust.
     
    My sand blasters painted the shell in Protec Etch Pro immediately to ensure no rust regrowth.
     
    It's pricey but worth it.  Makes working on the shell much nicer.
    #7
    PaulMk1
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    Re:Opinions on approach to resto wanted 2012/11/11 18:01:15 (permalink)
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    I built my own rollover jig and got busy with a wire brush and blow torch - the bottom came up trumps. I use stripper on the doors bonet and boot, and sanded the remaining panels down until I was sure it was solid.
     
    Lots of work - very messy but can be rewarding :-)
     
     
    #8
    coupe
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    Re:Opinions on approach to resto wanted 2012/11/11 21:58:15 (permalink)
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    If it were me I'd listen to the guys that are talking about using paint stripper or orbital sanding on the big flat panels, then blasting.I've restored a few american cars with big long quarters and no matter how good the sand blast operator is there is always room for error. Strip as much of the paint off the outside of the car as possible and then let the operator blast with garnet. Soda blasting doesnt remove rust only paint and maybe bog. Dont let the blaster do the inside of your bonnet or boot lid with his big blaster, If your going to do it right get him to use a small bottle style blaster that can be bought from trade tools etc. Blasting insides of panels like this will stencill through the inside stifner panel to the outside skin, what I'm saying is you will see the inside support panel stencil through to the outside skin 100%, trust me on this. Oh yeah and no matter how hard you try to get all the media out, you wont, it will be coming out for the whole build and longer, also just remember that the blast media may get into some areas that the paint gun may have trouble so blasting the whole inside of the car if its in good nick might be something you want to have a good think about. Also make sure all the body deadener is removed as the blast wont be very succesful at removing it, I like the idea of blow torch and scraper/wire brush but be sure to wear heavy duty gloves like welding gloves
    #9
    ratta tat tat
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    Re:Opinions on approach to resto wanted 2012/11/12 00:27:25 (permalink)
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    coupe I like the idea of blow torch and scraper/wire brush but be sure to wear heavy duty gloves like welding gloves

    And a respirator  There could be toxins in the deadner, especially if it's being heated by flame.
    #10
    coupe
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    Re:Opinions on approach to resto wanted 2012/11/12 09:49:46 (permalink)
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    Definately a respirator and safety goggles!
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    Flighter
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    Re:Opinions on approach to resto wanted 2012/11/12 19:49:59 (permalink)
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    This is great stuff, so thank you to all who have chipped in with your experiences so far - keep them coming!  
     
    A spray painter I met recently said that if I strip at home hitting the bare panels with a dash of etch primer would be sufficient to keep the rust at bay in the short term.  Seeing the blaster would go lightly over the these sections for good measure, this approach sounds reasonable to me, but just from your posts I'm learning what to watch out for (e.g. boot and bonnet frame markings!).  I'm aiming to talk to the blaster about exactly what material he'd use where etc. before I commit to this though.
     
    As far as stripping, I was thinking I'd use chemicals and follow it with sanding if need be.  Is an electric dual action sander sufficient, and is rotational speed a consideration?  Are all paint stripper created equal?  The material safety data sheets seem to suggest so.
     
    Definitely using quality safety gear for everything I do.
     
    Thanks again.
     
     
    #12
    coupe
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    Re:Opinions on approach to resto wanted 2012/11/12 20:09:13 (permalink)
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    I'm no expert by any means, I've just worked out my technique by trial and error so choose what you want from my posts. If it were me and I had a big enough compressor I would use an orbital sander, I hate using them for anything other then paint removal, if theres a lot of paint on the car i would use 80 grit. Dont go to fine or you will 'Polish' the metal. To keep the steel clean from rust I use a phosphric acid solution. Bunnings has rustbuster with 17% phosphoric acid. Get a spray bottle and spray on panel, I try to keep it out of any areas that it can get caught like seems etc. The next bit is the most important, I get a damp cloth and wipe the whole area over, this slowly mixes the damp cloth with the acid solution and by the end of wiping you have a near perfect looking panel. You may notice a slight white looking streak accross the panel. You can wipe any excess of with a dry cloth if you want. Honestly this works brilliant. I have a door on my ej panelvan that was done about 8 months ago and is only now starting to get a slight bronzing colour to it (surface rust starting) and it lives in a carport! It can be a bit tricky to work out at first but the result is as good as its ever gonna get. 1 bottle will do a whole car and is like less then $20. I know it sounds crazy wiping a damp cloth over raw steel but try it on an old panel and you will see how well it works. Its just how I do it and I worked it out by trial and error. All the area will need before paint prep by the blaster is a real quick scuff with a red scotch bright pad, Does anyone else use this technique?
    #13
    MK1_Oz
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    Re:Opinions on approach to resto wanted 2012/11/12 21:03:34 (permalink)
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    For areas not being blasted I would only ever recommend these disks;
     
    http://solutions.3m.com.a...0_univid=1258562044470
     
    Be careful not to build up heat as it distorts the panel just as bad as blasting.
     
    I tried paint stripper and wire wool on some flat panel areas and in some of the hard to access creases and joins.  Works very well but makes one hell of a mess!  Chemical stripper -> wipe of muck -> flush with copious amounts of water -> thoroughly dry with heat gun -> immediate etch
    #14
    razzle308
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    Re:Opinions on approach to resto wanted 2012/11/17 14:21:32 (permalink)
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    Hey Flighter.
    My 5cents.
    Mine is a treet car so i saw no point in going nuts bare metalling the underneath and inside (it does look nice though)
    If i had the cheque book i would do it.
    I too knew the history of mine and it was in very good condition. This being said I don't like easy way outs and dodgy short cuts. If i'm gonna spend 2 years and $1500 on paint - i want it proper as i can do.
    So - i got a car polisher (like a 200mm grinder but slow)  and went to tool place in welshpool an got 200mm pads like these www.eastwood.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/49827f4e4ab68e0bf91ffd22f523ef02/p1626.jpg You can also get little 100mm ones for the baby grinder for tighter spots.
    They get down to the metal real quick without cutting into the metal. You'll go through a few. 
    I do not like paint stripper and putting water near my bare metal. Just don't liiike it.
    I got the engine bay sand blasted - well worth it.
    Then i bought a little sand blaster nozzle from supercrap and some garnet powder and blasted every thing i could get my hands on. Was great for around doors and anywhere i couldn't get the grinder to.
    Window surounds ets.
    The inside i left alone - as you said - carpet and trim and you'll see none of it. As long as there is not rust.
    The underneat had been deadened from factory so no issues for me but i pulled everything out up on stands, donned the mask and coated it in fresh deadener. So all sealed and street pretty.
     
    Time consuming but didn't cost a bomb.

     
    post edited by razzle308 - 2012/11/17 14:28:42
    #15
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