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Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD!

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2lt_Scort
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RE: Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD! 2004/08/06 18:43:32 (permalink)
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Paul,
Going by my book, paint code E is metallic frosted pine. My paint code is W.

Looks very similar though.
#16
Paul Dunstan
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RE: Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD! 2004/08/06 22:25:38 (permalink)
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Well, I had all intensions of rebuilding the original RS but I will be reshelling it. I will do everything possible to replicate the original car to make it as authentic as possible. The original shell is too bent and twisted to resurect.
Albert, the pistons are 36mm which are a little small if using the standard M/C. I intend to go full pedal box setup so I can match the calliper bores to the applicable M/C to give me the results I need (0.625 at this stage). I will be using R31 callipers (38mm bore)with Alpha discs on the rear with probably a 0.750 M/C.
I have done some rough calculations but the engineer will have the final say.
#17
Paul Dunstan
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RE: Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD! 2004/09/06 01:04:50 (permalink)
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Yes it was, but the R31 cals seem just as effective and maybe easier to find. They look beter too
I guess it comes down to what I can find @ the right price
#18

Mark
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RE: Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD! 2004/09/06 06:38:14 (permalink)
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Do you know the formula for Master Cylinder size v's Caliper Piston bore, I have no booster and the pedal pressure required to stop is too much. If I go to a different M/C I should be able to reduce applied pedal pressure v's clamping pressure.
There has got to be a rule of thumb out there at least.
I fear bending my brake pedal out on the track.
#19
Paul Dunstan
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RE: Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD! 2004/09/06 12:25:11 (permalink)
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Mark,

If you want more clamping pressure (at the rotor) you must reduce the diameter of your M/C not increase it. The smaller M/C will give you a resulting higher line pressure as you will be exherting the same pedal force on a smaller cross sectional area. Your calliper piston bore sizes also influence pedal travel and applied effort.

Below is a spread sheet that I developed with John Alderson to give an indication of what combinations yield what line pressure outputs for a given pedal effort etc. I have only just added the pedal travel portion (may have a few gremlins). This prodominantly applies to a dual master system with a balance bar but you could use it for a single by putting the same M/C bore in for the 2.

As you will see, M/C size and pedal ratio will ultimately determine your line pressures and it's just a case of matching everything up. On the first sheet you need to put your wheel diameters, Vehicle mass, required deceleration force(G's) and the desired front to rear brake bias. Just punch in your proposed specifications on the second and have some fun

I might see if Simon will put it in the tech section when I'm sure it's right


Download Attachment: Brake torqueV2 comparrison.xls
29.7 KB
#20
Simon
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RE: Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD! 2004/09/06 13:17:33 (permalink)
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As Paul mentioned, this will go in the Tech Section once it has been fully resolved.

If anyone is using a different set up and can provide the necessary details, please post them here or let Paul know so he can add them. Being an excel spread sheet you can always add things yourself once it has been posted, but I figured the more to compare initially, the better.

Having a standard set up for comparison would be good as well, but I think the calculations for the drums was a bit of an issue wasn't it Paul? If anyone has some insight on this, again, leave a note here or e-mail him.

Thanks.
#21

Paul Dunstan
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RE: Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD! 2004/09/06 13:32:46 (permalink)
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Thanks Simon.

I would assume there to be a proportioning valve of some sort in the rear drum circuit. So in theory , if the front brake torque and the bias front to rear was known, then the rear brake torque for the drums could be calculated. If the original proportioning valve was maintained then the rear torque would be the same irrespective of M/C size (although the initial force might alter until the line pressure reached the "knee" set point of the valve).
If the original proporting valve needs to be removed, I would stongly recommend replacing it with an adjustable one to retain the brake bias with a front brake or M/C upgrade. On that point, I would recommend a proportiong valve for the rear disc set-up also to raise the efficiency of the braking system at lighter brake applications.
Peoples comments / ideas are welcome [^]
#22
Mark
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RE: Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD! 2004/09/06 20:10:09 (permalink)
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Agreed. Of course.

Thanks.

I will use it as a basis for my calculations.

I have a bias between the two 0.625 M/C's.

That fits in with the sheet. mmmmm

I think a change of pads may help too.
#23
Paul Dunstan
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RE: Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD! 2004/09/06 22:03:38 (permalink)
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What pedal ratio are you using - this may be the problem as the standard predal ratio may not be giving you the output you require (if that's what you're using).
What size piston bores does the Corvette calipers have?
2 pistons?
#24
Mark
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RE: Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD! 2004/10/06 09:23:49 (permalink)
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The pedal box is a modified Escort item. I will measure the ratio.
The Callipers are 2 piston floating type, I will check on the bore size. No worries.
#25
Paul Dunstan
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RE: Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD! 2004/10/06 10:48:32 (permalink)
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Mark,

With moderate pedal pressure you will need 1200psi + from your master to provide efficient braking.

Pressure = Pedal force / M/C area.

Your pedal ratio will have a direct relationship to the output of the M/C.

To be honest, with the 0.625 M/C I thought you would have plenty of pressure unless your caliper bores are quite small or your pedal ratio is not right. Either one will give you a hard pedal needing a decent push.
#26
Paul Dunstan
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RE: Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD! 2005/08/03 23:13:57 (permalink)
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Well it's been a while but a significant event has occurred - the shell is finally on the rotissorie!
After a major redesign the car is up, on and rotating
Time to start playing with the car and making some REAL progress [:I]



Download Attachment: Side.JPG
94.88 KB

Download Attachment: Front.JPG
95.74 KB

Some work to do here...........

Download Attachment: Underneath.jpg
62.47 KB


Also have bolted up the adapters for the RX7 calliper / Pug rotor combination. At least I know the idea works now - thanks Pete

Download Attachment: Brakes.jpg
60.1 KB

Download Attachment: Adapter.jpg
71.61 KB
#27
peterr
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RE: Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD! 2005/09/03 14:31:27 (permalink)
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No Probs
#28
Mark
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RE: Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD! 2005/09/03 20:18:36 (permalink)
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Keep on going Paul...........

I too, have soughted out my brakes.
#29
Paul Dunstan
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RE: Paul's RS2B - Officially DEAD! 2006/08/30 11:25:58 (permalink)
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OK, well this project has officially come to a close!

But, keep an eye in this section......
#30
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