5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block?

Re: 5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block? (5SGTE)

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 18:55:49 GMT

Ive got a 3s pump on mine. I put a bung on the barb that is related to the oil warmer/cooler. I've used all 3s bypass pipes.

Re: 5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block? (DamMR2T)

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 12:48:00 GMT

I suppose there's nothing wrong with the 3S pump as long as it fits (I'm yet to test fit everything to the block). I had just decided long ago to use a 5S as that seems like what yhe US guys always use, and it means I have 5S oil and water pumps. I also thought it might make things easier with the hard pipes being 5S Water pump, 5S hard pipes on 5S block. I also read somewhere the 3s pump has a water bypass hose coming out of the bottom and the 5s doesn't, which should be easy enoough for me to check as I have both handy.

Re: 5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block? (5SGTE)

Sat, 02 Jul 2016 18:17:20 GMT

It won't bother the cam timing. What's wrong with a 3s water pump?

Re: 5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block? (Falcon)

Sat, 02 Jul 2016 13:33:40 GMT

No . Sorry. Only have part no. for the 1998 year gen 3. 3sge water pump. 16100-79226.
It has 22 teeth. Round profile. Genuine Toyota (Aisin).
I cant see the very slight increase in rotational speed of the pump being a problem so long as it mates up correctly to the other fixtures on the 5S block. Cam timing can be compensated for at the cam pulley.
You really need someone who has done this conversion to chime in.

Re: 5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block? (DamMR2T)

Sat, 02 Jul 2016 12:18:22 GMT

Would you happen to know the part number of that 5S pump with rounded profile?
But still not sure I could use it as it has 1 extra tooth. I found this picture on ebay of a 16100-79185-83 pump which has V profile, but haven't been able to find a 16100-79135-83 picture (also referred to on MR2OC). TwosRUs isn't correct. Despite what MR2OC says, I'm starting to think the only option is to use a 3S water pump and hard pipes.

Re: 5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block? (Falcon)

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 11:25:35 GMT

I have genuine Toyota (aisin) water pumps off 5s with 23 teeth and off 3sge 1998 year model (gen3) with 22 teeth both on bench and they both have the rounded profile to conform to the 3sge belt.
Hope this is of some help.

Re: 5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block? (DamMR2T)

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 10:06:50 GMT

Can anyone confirm that a 5S water pump will work with a 3S timing belt. I was under the impression that a 91-93 5S water pump (16100-79185-83) will be fine. I thought the difference was to do with the number of teeth, but it is also the teeth profile. 3S timing belt is a round profile, while the 5S is more a V profile. The wheel also looks larger on the 3S pump than the 5S.

For those that have done a 5S build, what did you use? Anyone used a 5S waterpump?
Here are the 3S pump teeth

and the 5S pump teeth. Looks to be a non genuine, which I removed off my 2001 engine.

Re: 5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block? (dasic1)

Fri, 20 Mar 2015 18:04:42 GMT

I just used 3s eagle in mine. Plenty of people run them without any problems. I can't remember exactly how much the machine work on the crank was but only around $200.
I went with ACL race bearings.

Re: 5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block? (DamMR2T)

Fri, 20 Mar 2015 12:15:11 GMT

Well it’s been a while but I have now progressed a little further and have a 2001 camry long block with the direct injection, and a Gen3 sump.
I also have a complete ST215 engine (in pieces) with full OEM gasket kit which I could also rebuild at some stage. I got this mainly for the inlet manifold, and also to be able to match things up and see what is interchangeable during the build. I know I could use the sump and crank sensor but that would mean I can’t re-assemble and reuse the st215 engine.

I am now trying to determine part numbers required. I know I need the SC7451 CP pistons, but in terms of conrods what options are there nowadays? I know Pauter have the TOY-220-550-1380F and Crower have B93754B-4, but are any other manufacturers (such as Eagle) able to do some for a non custom price.

I would like NOT to ground down the 5S celica crank I have for the following reasons:
Stronger crank as no need to ground anything off journals.
No cost of getting ground journals to 3S size.
Easier/cheaper to source another crank if something unfortunate should happen.

However on the other side of coin:
Less off the shelf conrod choices.
5S Pauter are around US$450 more expensive than 3S Eagle.
Less choice of 5S conrod bearings, I could only find Clevite(CB-1639P) or King (CR4135AM). I’m leaning towards King as some of the bigger builds have used them.

Out of curiosity, what rod bolts come with Pauter, Pauters own?

For others reference, I am also looking at using the following:
ARP 3SGTE Main Studs (203-5404)
ARP 3SGTE Head Studs (203-4204)
Toyota OEM 3SGTE Full Gasket Kit (04111-74541)
5SFE Rear Main Seal (90080-31021)
5SFE Water pump with 3S inlet hose bracket that has the bolt that holds the dip stick to it.
5SFE Oil pump with 3S Oil pump Gear
3S Gen 3 Timing belt to match the Oil pump gear, probably HKS
Apexi 1.1mm head gasket (814-T201)

Re: 5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block? (-Totenkopf-)

Tue, 27 Aug 2013 19:26:05 GMT

Hrmm, I cant remember exactly, it was a COP engine though..

Re: 5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block? (DamMR2T)

Tue, 27 Aug 2013 19:04:29 GMT

I have been considering the RacerX kit (not that I would need it straight away as I'm not chasing big power to begin with, so standard ignition should be fine), but thought if I can use OEM that will save me the cost and I can do it straight up.
I'm looking at an indicative power figure of 250kw, but not really aiming for a number. I'm not considering E85 at this stage until it is more widely available. I'm guessing I will have to look more closely at a few blocks in person, but just trying to narrow down my options first.
I was seriously considering Totenkopfs engine but think it would end up out my price range once I added on all the extras required, besides now I have my worked Gen3 head. Do you know what year your 5SFE block is Totenkopf?

Re: 5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block? (-Totenkopf-)

Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:22:23 GMT

Engines still for sale, the custom pistons from CP are supposed to be here in 2 weeks. The engine I was building uses the caldina head that has allocation for the cam angle sensor and caldina sump & pump for crank angle sensor.

Re: 5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block? (just_ace)

Wed, 14 Aug 2013 17:31:31 GMT

to run COPS you need both a crank and a cam angle sensor.

to run a crank angle sensor on a 5s block you just need the correct oil pump, timing belt drive gear and sensor off the correct model. that is if you run the gen2 sump.

if you want to use the gen3 sump, then you will need one from a caldina or beams and the assoc oil pump etcs.

for the crank angles sensor(if your running gen3 head), you either have to use the dizzy minus the cap for the signal, or get a racerX etc kit.

what power are you chasing? there's a dude on toymods with 300+kw caldina on E85. not stroker. tho i believe he did check through a few blocks before finding one he was happy with.

if totenkopfs engine is still forsale i'd highly recommend getting that one, or if not flupstar has one already built.

Re: 5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block? (DamMR2T)

Wed, 14 Aug 2013 16:38:07 GMT

I will definitely be getting a block local.
I was originally going for a 3S with 5S crank, but then thought why not get a 5S block as the only difference is going to be machining the water galleries.

So then it was a 98+ 5S block, but I read about the even later 5S engine having crank angle sensor and COP so thought why not, if it can be used. If it can't be used, or would cost more than getting a racerX setup, then I won't worry. But it also means there is a difference between the two 5S blocks, and I will have to find a 98-99 without the CAS and COP right?
In terms of the ST204, now that I have the celica 5S crank (without balance shafts), I should be able to get any 98+ block.

Has anyone used a Caldina block?

Re: 5S Build - 1998/2000 block or ST215 block? (just_ace)

Sat, 10 Aug 2013 14:11:46 GMT

If your using a gen3 head then youll need some custom cam angle sensor to compliment the crank angle sensor if you go that route.

Or you can just use the dizzy as the cam/crank angle sensor. Fit a blanking cap and your choice of cop or individual coils etc.

Also in aus, the block to get is the st204 block. Has the 3sgte sized main caps and all the other revised areas but no balance shafts.