GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2

Re: GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2 (kojab)

Mon, 04 Apr 2016 08:33:45 GMT

I am sure many distributors could be used/modified to run the Delco ecu but as soon as you do it no longer becomes PNP

This 4AGE distributor (TVIS) http://embeddeddesign.co.nz/install-guides/toyota/16v-4age/
has only 2 VR Sensors. Whereas the 3SGTE uses three.

Found this http://www.mr2australia.com/mr2play/tm.aspx?m=83908
Good to know my Delco conversion will be PNP with the 3SGE

I know the path I am taking is a hard one but the results I am getting with the Delco ecu is very pleasing and besides that I love a challenge.

Re: GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2 (Knightrous)

Sun, 03 Apr 2016 16:35:35 GMT

Did the 3SGE motors ever use the Toyota VAST ignition systems that were applied to 4AGE's of the late 80's?
The VAST igniter dealt with both driving the coil and filtering the VR signals from the distributor. It filtered the tach signal into a simple 12V square wave signal which was sent to ECU. The VAST ignitor runs a standard 10 degrees of timing unless provided a 5V square wave signal on the IGT wire, which then gives it the advance amounts.

The VAST unit is so simple, you can run the car with the ECU removed and just spraying starter spray in the intake :)

Re: GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2 (kojab)

Sat, 02 Apr 2016 11:04:08 GMT

Sorry I have not posted this earlier. Have been very busy driving my nephew from England around to see what Australia looks like.

Yes I agree keeping it plug and play was my first priority also, unfortunately taking this approach makes it far more difficult to overcome new modifications that won’t suit both ecus. The biggest problem with the Toyota 3SGTE distributor is the common ground VR signals. I have read where some people have modified the distributor wiring and separated the signals buy removing the common ground. I did not want to remove my distributer so decided on modifying a module I had previously made to run a Lexus 1UZ engine on a Delco ecu which ran flawlessly for years.

The 1UZ also used three VR signals, two for the left and right cams and one for the crank. Just had to modify this module to suit a four cylinder engine. With this accomplished I tested it with the Delco in my AW11. Engine started and just had to change the reference spark angle within the Delco program to get the timing back to 10 degrees BTDC with link in. Although the engine would start and run well in the lower RPMs up high 6000, 7000 the engine would miss due to false triggering caused by the common ground VR signals form the standard distributor. I had to find a different approach.

Came across this, Dual VR Conditioner Board V2.1 http://jbperf.com/dual_VR/v2_1.html

This certainly looked like it would work with the standard 3SGTE distributer but after several months trying to get this to work, I realised that this little device was far too sensitive to work with cross talk VR signals caused by the common ground wiring in the distributer.

New approach. Why try and invent the wheel. Toyota had overcome this problem, so decided to see what filter network was used in the standard Toyota ecu. After retracing the VR input circuit and finding a very elaborate filtering network which uses separate paths for each VR signal it was obvious that I had to use the same circuitry for the Delco ecu. Engine now runs cleanly to 8000 rpm.

Re: GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2 (zvargulis)

Mon, 21 Mar 2016 22:14:58 GMT

Hey thanks for replying, I haven't actually started a conversion yet, I have started looking at a hondata conversion but the biggest issue is the Toyota distributor output is not compatible with the Honda ECU, everyone suggests to replace the distributor with a Honda one meaning that my stock toyota ECU will no longer be plug n play.(I havnt researched enough yet to see what the Honda ECU is expecting to see if I could make a circuit to allow it to work, my guess the teeth count is the show stopper though)

I notice that in your first post you mentioned that you had to overcome a distributor vr issue? I'm not familiar with GM Delco ECU yet, can you program a Delco to be able to understand the Toyota distributor? Or did you have to fit an inline "conditioner" to allow the delco to understand Toyotas distributor outputs?

Cheers.

Re: GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2 (kojab)

Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:34:41 GMT

What sort of problems are you having with your distributor vr signals? What's your application? What are you trying to achieve?

Re: GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2 (zvargulis)

Sun, 20 Mar 2016 21:28:32 GMT

How did you overcome the distributors vr signals?

Re: GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2 (kojab)

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 11:15:43 GMT

My name has appeared in a few magazines but not as "Delcoman"
No the Delcoman your thinking of came from SA.

Thanks for your encouragement.

Re: GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2 (kameleon)

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 09:41:16 GMT

This reminds me of "Delcoman" who i used to read about in Zoom magazines.

Or is that you...

Good work though on it being plug and play.

Re: GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2 (kojab)

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 21:36:53 GMT

Good info. Within the Delco code I am currently driving the factory T-VSV from a 9 x17 byte table. I decided on MAP vs RPM control. Its simply either off or on, not PWM. It looks to be working fine. I keep stepping up the boost slowly followed by more tuning.

What I have discovered is the current fuel pump could only supply fuel for 8-9 PSI boost during high engine RPM. PO had mentioned to me at the time of purchase that it may have been running lean under load and a additional fuel pump had been installed to fix this problem.
I found out yesterday that although the pump was installed it was not being triggered by the factory ECU. I understand now why it was not used as it increases the fuel pressure at atmo from 30 PSI to 40 PSI and this over fueled the engine with the factory ECU. Lucky for me that I can re-commission the unused pump and tune accordingly.
Should add the car always had good power with the Blitz ECU fitted.

The third trace down is the fuel pressure. 2.08 V = 275 kPa (39.9 PSI) it drops off as the boost is still rising.
If you look to the right of the center vertical marker at frame 368, the fuel pressure trace should look like the INJ_PULSE or even closer to the MAP sensor as the fuel pressure reg is attached and they are both tracking manifold boost/vacuum.

Re: GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2 (kojab)

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 21:30:51 GMT

purple5ive
wow, props for doing somethign different. good luck with it mate..
im also running wategate pressure atm but get about 14psi if i hold the throttle down long enough. a bleed valve should suffice until you go ECU controlled boost
cheers

Thanks for the kind words

Re: GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2 (MCT_MR2)

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 20:20:01 GMT

yeah, most 3 port solenoids like MAC solenoids, delco 3 port solenoids (what motec used to sell), and pierberg (what motec sells now) are all highly effective for bleeding off boost.
not knowing how much control you have for setting up your PWM aux outputs, run any of the above valves at 30hz for best control.
MAC solenoids have the highest failure rate if one post is open to atmosphere unfiltered and when they get oil in them.

Re: GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2 (purple5ive)

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 08:45:53 GMT

wow, props for doing somethign different. good luck with it mate..
im also running wategate pressure atm but get about 14psi if i hold the throttle down long enough. a bleed valve should suffice until you go ECU controlled boost
cheers

Re: GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2 (kojab)

Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:39:19 GMT

Nick your assumption was correct. I treated the T-VSV as an electronically controlled bleed valve being the same type as Gen2 a and I now have gone from 7 PSI to 10 PSI.
I am not pushing it hard at all (33% throttle) as I still have to tune it now with more boost. So now the Delco can decide where to have 7 PSI or 16 PSI. I think I like 16PSI better lol as that's what it was with the Blitz ECU.

I assume the Mac solenoid will do PWM (Duty cycle) so later I could always use one of these if I want more boost. Delco ECU will control this too using the 12P code developed by VL400.

Thanks for your help.

Re: GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2 (Mrskylighter)

Tue, 11 Mar 2014 14:59:15 GMT

I was under the assumption that the T-VSV device was the same on the gen 2 and 3 3sgte.
Reason I believe this to be the case is because with the plug in Apexi Power FC ecu you can plug in an optional boost control solenoid directly into the factory T-VSV harness plug. (Unplug the T-VSV device itself and plug in the MAC solenoid with the correct male T-VSV plug on the end)
Hope the above makes sense.

Anyway, you can get a gen3 Power FC to run a Gen 2 engine (with a few wiring changes, igniter change etc) and use the boost control feature. I did this on my old SW20.

Re: GM Delco for stand alone on a 3SGTE MR2 (kojab)

Tue, 11 Mar 2014 14:48:45 GMT

UPDATE.

My 3STGE powered AW11 is now running on the Delco ECU. Very happy so far as I have been driving it daily tuning the fuel and spark tables up to 7 PSI of boost.
The Delco conversion has already overcome a small issue I was having with the standard standard Toyota ECU.
A little surprised as I thought the problem was in the car itself. Still could be, but only time will tell.

Was not keen to replace the Toyota coolant and air temp sensors with Holden ones which is the norm when doing a Delco converstion . I really want this to be plug N play and decided to look for the calibration for both temperature sensors in the Delco code.
A week later I had the Delco calibrations sorted and now using both factory 3SGTE coolant and air temp sensors. It was nice not having to place a spanner on the engine to overcome this obstacle.

Next stage is to turn up the boost. Current 7 PSI boost is with no wastegate control as I have lost that when the Toyota ECU was removed. Was going to use a “Turbosmart Tee bleed” I bought from Mrskylighter but I am pretty sure I can use the Delco to control boost.

This is where I am stuck for info.

I have read here: http://www.imoc.co.uk/technical/article/boost.htm Rev 3 MR2’s T-VSV (boost control solenoid) is PWM whereas the Rev 1 & 2 the T-VSV is just a on/off bleed valve. I am not sure if this is true. Would be nice if the T-VSV was PWM, I could not only control when I wanted boost to occur but also by how much boost.

Also does “Rev 3” mean “Gen 3” which my engine is? Hence the confusion.