And back to the start

Re: And back to the start (purple5ive)

Wed, 15 May 2013 09:19:04 GMT

Tree
"keep dreaming buddy..with the same driver the turbo is going to win hands down (and im not being biased here either).lol
and yesh would ahve taken you up on that offer, but i have to be carefull what i do with my car from now on"
Your call purpleman, but it's all just theory until we put it to practice. If it's going to win hands down, then you have nothing to lose :)

Just FYI NAs can light up the rears in mid corner. Just ask your very own Iain and Adrian. The Beams certainly can with better torque curve from VVTi

i got nothing to loose regardless of wethere i take up your offer or not lets make that clear first. worse situation i will come second best on a track (where the only eperience i have is a few hill climbs).
secondly its not about you and me , its a turbo vs N/A, i did say SAME driver for a reason.
im still standing by my previous comments...

Re: And back to the start (Dudeman)

Tue, 14 May 2013 19:58:20 GMT

Gatesys SW20
As far as I know and interpret the rule
You can only fit an engine that one
Either came out standard in that car, or two does not increase capacity

Thats how it 'reads'. It all depends on who is reading it and who is listening when it comes to a prosecution.

I have been told that a matter was tossed out at court over the 'increase engine performance' cloud.

Depends on how much you want to fork out for a thief, erm, a 'legal representative', that and the magistrates mood on the day.

If you appear under Judge Arse, well, older heads here know how angry he can be.

And 2GR in AW, well that in power to ratio world - which applied to bikes....

There are restricted 6's. M3, some Mercs, few others.

Re: And back to the start (B24)

Tue, 14 May 2013 19:49:44 GMT

Like dudeman said, the power to weight will improve but if its a stock engine which comes out of the factory with x amount of power, it is not a modifield engine. More efficient, improved power and economy but not modified in any way. Its also basically the same engine with some slight improvements in the valve-train and a few other bits so it will not be an issue. If it was a 3.0ltr, it could be an issue but I don't have the answer there.
I think you should stick with the NA. You have a whole life ahead of you to enjoy a turbo. Refine your skills to maximize what you have then look into more performance in a few years. Most guys who own the NA enjoy a fantastic amount of reliability and fun.
I drove and passenger in Ian and Adrian's car which was just a lot of fun without extreme speed and associated risks.All braking and corner speed.
You have had a little taste of my car(sadly the boost spike marred the little time we had in the car) which is a different experience to the NA but did expose you to the potential of what a 3SGTE is capable of but it would be a death trap on the road. Just too much power for street driving, putting you and others in harms way in a very rapid amount of time if you start stomping on the go pedal.

Best of luck and hurry up with the pictures. Load them to photobucket then drop the link on you thread.

Re: And back to the start (Gatesys SW20)

Tue, 14 May 2013 19:46:17 GMT

As far as I know and interpret the rule
You can only fit an engine that one
Either came out standard in that car, or two does not increase capacity

Also
An exhaust increases engine performance so legally I could have been busted and the intake
And the ported manifold etc

So a redtop beams came standard in a 99 mr2
So as far as I'm concerned that's legal.

Re: And back to the start (IMR22C)

Tue, 14 May 2013 19:38:04 GMT

The performance increases from the factory motor originally fitted to the car.
That's saying a P plater can drive around a 2GR AW11 and have it be perfectly legal.

Re: And back to the start (Dudeman)

Tue, 14 May 2013 18:59:36 GMT

IMR22C
Quoted from the RTA website

Vehicles – You must not drive any vehicle with:
Modifications that increase engine performance.

A BEAMS conversion is a modification to the vehicle in which engine performance increases.

Hell, no cop is going to pick you up for it, so go for it. But from my experience, no cop is going to pick you up for a factory turbo either.

Its not a modification that increases the performance of the engine, the engine stays standard and the BEAMS is a P plater legal engine.

Car performance increases yes, the engines? No.

Some cops like cars, that why some cops end up in the much loved highway patrol. Those cops, they will know what they are looking at. But some are too fat, too lazy or fat and lazy to care.

Re: And back to the start (Tree)

Tue, 14 May 2013 18:11:39 GMT

"keep dreaming buddy..with the same driver the turbo is going to win hands down (and im not being biased here either).lol
and yesh would ahve taken you up on that offer, but i have to be carefull what i do with my car from now on"
Your call purpleman, but it's all just theory until we put it to practice. If it's going to win hands down, then you have nothing to lose :)

Just FYI NAs can light up the rears in mid corner. Just ask your very own Iain and Adrian. The Beams certainly can with better torque curve from VVTi

Re: And back to the start (Gatesys SW20)

Tue, 14 May 2013 17:49:08 GMT

Ahahaha Hayden!
No, the Na was just awsome in general site the turbo had the balls

And the rear tyres were easy to chop mid corner
Easier in the turbo however.

But I don't want it to really hang around would rather sell it ahah

I love everyone here but
My Na was cool
The end

I'm not sure if its an extra 30kg but I don't really care :)

Re: And back to the start (haydEn)

Tue, 14 May 2013 15:06:23 GMT

Lets just get something clear. The added 30kg from the superior turbo isn't going to make no difference.

Ethan your not giving the turbo credit. The n/a had setup coilovers and better tyres not adjustable shocks also not enough power to chop the tyres mid corner.

The n/a was probably more fun to drive cause it was loud as ****.

Do what I said.

Shelter the turbo till blacks and blow up the n/a they are cheap as chips to replaced

Re: And back to the start (Gatesys SW20)

Tue, 14 May 2013 14:19:35 GMT

Ah ahah pics will be up tonight
Being on an iPhone makes it hard to post photos

Yeah each are great cars don't get me wrong
I most likely will go down the turbo route
If not the redtop beams

I just love my nas mainly due to having strong memories with them I'd say.

Easy to work on adwell

Re: And back to the start (purple5ive)

Tue, 14 May 2013 11:51:38 GMT

damn it , chase_d got in before me lol..
i alsmost forgot that this is a showroom thread, so i apologise for sort of derailing it on my behalf.

Re: And back to the start (purple5ive)

Tue, 14 May 2013 11:48:43 GMT

you have very valid points, and i have xperience the same on club cruises in the twisties and also seen it on the track (spectating at the nationals 2011)
however just thought id point out that
brakes and wheels are the same for turbo and N/A. brakes are bigger on 92 plus for both variants. wheels depends on what year they were released. tyres the same.

but i think gatesy wants to go N/A and thats all that matters.
he actually is in a good position, having both at his disposal. so he can make his mind up himself which i think he has...

Re: And back to the start (chase_d)

Tue, 14 May 2013 11:38:04 GMT

And post some pictures....Seriously 4 pages and no pics!

Showroom threads that show the transformation of a car are the best!

Re: And back to the start (chase_d)

Tue, 14 May 2013 11:34:39 GMT

Its your car Gatesys - you've driven an Turbo (be it for a very short time) and driven a NA

Have you driven a worked (mr2) NA or a worked (mr2) Turbo Motor

I personally haven't so cannot hold judgement. Before you rush out and buy parts I would definitely try and source a test drive (or passenger seat joy ride) in someones car.

All of these downsides you mention of a turbo, I have had none and I have used my car on the track on more then once occurrences and I know for a fact previous owners have done the same.

Spend the time, get this up and running like it should and move on from there.

Re: And back to the start (Knightrous)

Tue, 14 May 2013 11:12:56 GMT

purple5ive
would have thought more HP= more performace/fun in the right hands...

HP is just a single part of the equation and more of it doesn't always return more performance (Or muscle cars would be the fastest things ever).
The big thing to look at is weight. With a turbo, you have a heavier gearbox (to handle to higher HP), heavier drive shafts (to handle the higher torque), heavier brakes (to slow down from the faster straight line speeds, heavier car), heavy turbo assembly (to make more power, to push the heavy car), heavy intercooling assembly (to cool the hot turbo to keep the HP up), heavier wheels (to fit bigger tires for more traction), heavier tires (to get the power down to the road.

All this weight works against the car when it tries to turn (Inertia is a bitch), and this is where the NA get's it's advantage. If you took two cars, exactly the same in every way, chassis, tires (lets say 205's), wheels, brakes suspension) except one is NA, the other is Turbo and 150kg heavier because of it. The lighter NA will be able to take corners faster due to having less weight, less corner inertia (the force trying to make you not turn) and will be able to stop quicker (less mass to slow down).

In a back of the envelope example*. At Wakefield, a turbo might do 240km/h down the straight, but has to brake 100m from the corner and then can only take the corner at 100km/h or it slides/runs wide. The NA only gets up to 180km/h down the straight, but can brake 50m out from the corner and can take the corner at 110km/h without issues. If both cars come onto the straight doing 80km/h, the Turbo will pull a 50m lead before braking, the NA then winds all that distances back in while the Turbo is braking, before standing on the brakes itself, and then it will actually over take the turbo through the corner as it maintains a higher corner entry and exit speed.

This might not work as well at places like Eastern Creek where the track is a series of massive straights, where HP certainly carries a big advantage (although, lower weight with adequate HP can tip the scales. ie: 1000kg + 400HP can trump 1250kg + 600HP)
* My numbers are probably off, but it's just a rough example.