Dry Sump?

Re: Dry Sump? (Tree)

Sun, 28 Apr 2013 00:06:45 GMT

Hmm interesting a member from the Beams forum told me the Toyota manual recommends says to use 5w30 for the Beams 3SGE, any higher the VVTi don't function properly. 15w50 to 5w40 is a difference for sure, feels less restrictive

Re: Dry Sump? (Tree)

Sat, 27 Apr 2013 15:22:15 GMT

Okay tbh I never finished reading past chapter 1 lol but for now I'll stick with 5W since it's half way between 0 and 10. Just thought it would be an interesting debate tho
I suppose you could call it a list hehe but most of it isn't actually performance related. Would be good to see how far I can take this car in full road trim and if money and time permits the engine will be "bulletproof" without even touching the internals " />" />" />" />

Re: Dry Sump? (5SGTE)

Sat, 27 Apr 2013 14:45:44 GMT

Lets look at this for a min. Lets talk about a 10W40, I believe that this will always have a viscosity of 10W. Oils carry additives that 'uncoil' to make it act like a 40 but the viscosity is still a 10W. They are like this so can make their way around your eng, to your bearings and head, when cold but uncoil to take up expansion and provide protection when hot. On top of that oil sticks to everything anyway so there should always be some sort of residual on start up without the need for extra additives.

Is oil 'thinner' (not to be confused with viscous) when its hot or cold? We all warm our cars up before an oil change right?

If you have a stock eng in good health I'd be sticking to the recommendation, if it's rebuilt I'd be checking with the builder about his recommendation.

Re: Dry Sump? (kameleon)

Sat, 27 Apr 2013 13:57:57 GMT

Less reading of wizardry, more using the correct oil for your engine.

Re: Dry Sump? (B24)

Sat, 27 Apr 2013 09:18:07 GMT

That's great Tree, so you will be using 0w?
I personally don't understand all the debate over oil. To me, it does not make all that much difference. A little, but not a lot. I don't think any oils will blow up your standard engine but as you engine is a BEAMS, you should use what the factory states. Also use the right oil filter and not one of these valveless units.
I like the dry sump idea and it does help in may ways,but its one of the final peices in the puzzle. I guess you are putting together a bucket list for your 'secret SW20 track weapon project to kill all who comes before you at UTC2015'? Yes?
I hope so. You have plenty of support in Vic to make it happen.

Cheers

Re: Dry Sump? (Tree)

Sat, 27 Apr 2013 01:14:37 GMT

Alright since it's a one man war I shall release...MY TRUMP CARDS!!! (drum roll)

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles (All articles one page)

In a nutshell by Mr Ken, since I'm utterly useless at techincal:

Oil pump has fixed displacement and will pump the oil towards the internals at the same rate regardless
The interesting part is what happens once it gets there
But before that we should think about the oil filter
If the oil is anything higher than 5w-XX then a lot of it doesnt even get filtered while the oil is cold
The filter creates a restriction and there will be a pressure drop between the inlet and outlet of the filter, just as if the filter was partially blocked
That means the filter bypass valve opens and sends some of the oil through unfiltered

So thats problem no1. When the cold oil reaches the bearings, it hits another restriction. This affects the actual oil system pressure (which has nothing to do with the filter anymore). The oil tries to squeeze through into the bearings but its hard because the oil is still thick

So the oil flow through the bearings is not great and the pressure goes way up. This opens the bypass in the oil pump in order to regulate the pressure, and sends most of flow back into the sump. As the oil heats up it thins out, until eventually the valve closes and then pressure starts to go down

If you run a 0w or 5w you get full flow through your bearings from the beginning, and if the hot viscosity is around 40 or 50, then in theory it wont get much thinner when it heats up. A 0w50 stays almost the same through the whole temperature range (in theory)
And thats where it gets a bit iffy. In order to achieve a really wide viscosity range like 0w50 they need to use viscosity modifiers and **** like that. And I'm not sure how well they hold up over time and high heat and high shear conditons. Its generally accepted that the most stable and durable oils have narrow viscosity ranges. Racing oils will often have only one number instead of a 'range'

Any takers? LOL

Re: Dry Sump? (Knightrous)

Fri, 26 Apr 2013 23:23:49 GMT

In my opinion, if your oil needed "stabiliser", the oil companies would put it in the oil to begin with. I'm sure the oil companies would love to add it to their oils as a big marketing tool and up the price, but I've yet to see it.

Re: Dry Sump? (kameleon)

Fri, 26 Apr 2013 22:19:43 GMT

I agree with Aaron

Re: Dry Sump? (Gatesys SW20)

Fri, 26 Apr 2013 21:56:03 GMT

I dunno whether you were being funny or thanking me for that idea

But if you didn't know about it
There one of te best oil companies around
And the stabiliser is very good
Drag cars use it
Tuners use it
Trucks use it

It just think it may be a far cheaper alternative :)

It eliminates cold starts and reduces cold start wear dramatically
:) worth a go
Just grab some and pour 200ml in and see how it goes

Re: Dry Sump? (Tree)

Fri, 26 Apr 2013 21:35:03 GMT

Mr Gates - always have something up your sleeves lol

Re: Dry Sump? (Gatesys SW20)

Fri, 26 Apr 2013 13:39:42 GMT

I only ran it in the Na as it was a daily and I went to work in cold mornings
So it worked very well

Also I run 10-40 royal purple with 10-15 percent
Stabiliser and its great stuff
Easier starts quiter running and a little more pressure
:)
Didn't hurt it at all

Re: Dry Sump? (Knightrous)

Fri, 26 Apr 2013 13:35:47 GMT

Or you could just use the oil the damn cars are designed to run on... 10W40 to 15W50....
15W50 in my 20V shuts the rattling of the VVT pulley up a bit and gives it a bit better oil pressure in the process.

Re: Dry Sump? (Gatesys SW20)

Fri, 26 Apr 2013 12:03:05 GMT

Why not just use
Lucas heavy duty oil stabiliser
Prevents oil run off cylinder walls
It's really good stuff I use it
And it's not thick to decrease performance

Very good.

Re: Dry Sump? (Tree)

Fri, 26 Apr 2013 11:52:31 GMT

Turned the car on this morning after one week of not driving it. Call me paranoid but very sure I heard one loud clank just before idle
I think my 0W comment just came and bit me in the ass :S even tho I have 5W in it right now

Re: Dry Sump? (-Totenkopf-)

Thu, 25 Apr 2013 20:07:07 GMT

Hahaha