Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst

Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst (big_al_92t)

Thu, 16 Aug 2012 16:22:12 GMT

Bump. Bringing this thread back from the dead, how many users on here have had Bilstein struts on their MR2? They are apparently a mono-tube construction, in comparison to the Koni twin-tube, correct? That in itself appears to be a benefit.
I ask because I'm going to get a Strut and Spring package (the TRD Springs are so far looking like the most streetable option) and it's a hard decision to make between the Koni's and the Bilsteins... If I can get a hold of a set of Bilstein B6's that is.

Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst (Reddtarga)

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:30:42 GMT

Zediah
Be careful with aftermarket spring manufacturers advertised drop.
They often appear to compare this with the early '90 model ride height when the OEM springs were new.
But your 20 YO springs will have sagged already.
I found for example that Eibach Pro-kits have an advertised drop of 25 mm, but if fitted to a 90 model sdub they will only lower about 17 mm. If fitted to a 92+ model the ride height will stay about the same, because 92+ model were 17 mm lower than the early models anyway.

"Does not need alignment after adjustment"
As has been mentioned, if you remove the struts to fit inserts you will need a full alignment done.
After that, if you simply change the settings on Koni adjustable inserts, you will not need one.

Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst (purple5ive)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:35:02 GMT

Not all the SS comes with adjustable camber plates either so be prepared to fork out extra if you need them.
with coilovers also be carefull with the width your front wheels are some wheels dont clear with coilovers depending on offsets and widths in the front because the coilovers come down past the wheels in the front whereas the stcok strut/springs dont.

cheers

Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst (nissky)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:27:35 GMT

You are going to need wheel alignments for any strut replacement.
So it shouldn't be a pro or con either way.
Coilovers can be quite comfortable. Depends on springs and how hard you set the damping.

What is your budget?
:D
That will be the deciding factor in the end.
If you have a decent budget.
Go konis/trd springs and let the shop worry about fitting the inserts.
Include bushes/ball joints/swaybarlinks at same time. $2500 including labour :)

Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst (MaXim)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:13:03 GMT

In my past experience, coilovers don't last much more than 50,000km for street driving applications before needing servicing. 10kkm for pure track use.

Needless to say, don't buy second hand coilovers.

Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst (Zediah)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:09:45 GMT

I'm not against getting coilovers, they sound easier to have installed but come with a few cons too. After all that I've read, they aren't always the best option, need all the information first before investing!

I've made up a little list about what I've been able to gather from the thread so far...

Coil Overs:
Pro:
- Replaces upper mounts
- Not as frowned on by NSW police?
Con:
- Not too long lasting (how long though, 1 year? 5 years? 10 years?)
- Alignment redone if adjusted
BC Racing Coilovers ($1000?):
Pro
- Great performance?
- Relatively hard ride?
Tein SS (unknown):
- Softer than BC?

Springs:
Con:
- No Linear Springs
- 'Floaty' on crests/bumps/hills
Eibach ($260 twosrus):
- Same as 93' Stock
- Close to Stock Hardness
- Decent Performance
TRD ($310 twosrus):
- Lower Than 93' Stock (1-1.5 inches)
- Stiffer than Stock
- Better performance?
- 'Floaty' on crests/bumps/hills

Inserts:
Con:
- Pain in the ass to install if sealed struts
Koni Insert ($347.50 front, $347.50 back):
Pro
- Soft, good for road use
- Adjustable to be hard for track
- Does not need alignment after adjustment
- Decent Perfomance?
- Very long lasting
Struts/Shocks:
Bilstein (unknown):
- Long Lasting
- Harder Ride
- Good performance

Other:
Sway Bars:
Whiteline Adjustable (+ bracket reo plates)
TRD Sway bars (not adjustable?)(+ bracket reo plates)
Ball Joints
Tie Rod Ends
Suspension Brushs:
Stock
Poly
- more maintinence
- Potentially more viabration

Does all this sound right?
How many years can you reliably get out of coilovers? I've read posts where people have said they got not even a year out of them for example, but I'm sure others have had many many more.

Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst (MR2QIK)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:49:33 GMT

I agree re the longevity, however I'm sure they'll still last plenty long enough. Will probably kill the stock motor or wear the transmission & have plenty of "garage detention time" before BC's require replacement....haha

Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst (nissky)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:53:05 GMT

MR2QIK

IMHO, with the improved quality & fiercely competitive coilover market, I'd look at coilovers rather than springs/struts (not so frowned upon in NSW by the Popo). Even in the lower end of town, BC coilovers have had very good reviews amongst many crowds. At potentially a smidgen less than $1000, very hard to look past. In combination with good tyres, front adjustable sways bars (with reo plates), front tension rods, good condition bushes etc & a well set alignment, I think the results would be exhilerating. The 5/8 spring rates would be ideal too IMO (potentially not as soft as Tein SS, but not nearly as harsh as the rest).

I agree, i went with (soft 4/6) coilovers.
Replaces the upper mounts too, so something less you need to worry about.
But I do not believe they will last as long as bilstein struts for example.

Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst (MRTurbo)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:49:05 GMT

^Apparently you can get Industrial Springs on Pt Road to make up custom springs to suit.

Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst (MaXim)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:44:20 GMT

They're all progressive, even TRD.

Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst (MRTurbo)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:14:49 GMT

yeah I find the progressive Eibach rears a bit 'floaty' at times over crests and bumps in the hills, would prefer linear. Are the TRDs progressive rear too?

Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst (MaXim)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:02:27 GMT

MR2QIK

IMHO, with the improved quality & fiercely competitive coilover market, I'd look at coilovers rather than springs/struts (not so frowned upon in NSW by the Popo). Even in the lower end of town, BC coilovers have had very good reviews amongst many crowds. At potentially a smidgen less than $1000, very hard to look past. In combination with good tyres, front adjustable sways bars (with reo plates), front tension rods, good condition bushes etc & a well set alignment, I think the results would be exhilerating. The 5/8 spring rates would be ideal too IMO (potentially not as soft as Tein SS, but not nearly as harsh as the rest).

Now that you mention it, it's hard to look past the price for these, and they can be acquired locally.

One other thing to note is that there are no linear springs available for the MR2, while there are plenty of progressive coilover options available.

Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst (Reddtarga)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:50:39 GMT

Zediah

Reddtarga - I noticed on twos'r'us they have a ball join/tie rod combo set on sale, would they be a good place to start? () Although they don't appear to have suspension brushes that I can see...would be good to have everything in one order to save on shipping

Would it cost much to have a suspension place modify the sealed ones?

What exactly would the Bilsteins be replacing? The entire strut/shocks? I have some knowledge of suspension but there's still quite a large gap sorry...

Twos'rus give good service. I got Koni inserts, (gland nut type) tie front rod ends, ball joints, and poly suspension bushes from them, and highly recommend them.
But it pays to shop around. Also try Gorilla, Road and Track, and Lithia Toyota Parts.

Suspension bushes:
Many people replace the stock rubber suspension bushes with poly.
Pro's: tighter suspension feel.
Cons: they need lubrication or can become noisy. Also tend to transmit more vibration.

Koni, Bilstein:
I have heard the saying "Bilsteins for the track, and Koni's for the street," but of course you can stiffen the Koni's up for a track day anyway.
I have tried both on my car, and I found that the stock struts with Koni adjustable inserts on the softest setting, ride noticably softer than the stock sealed Bilstein strut/shock combo.

I'm not sure about Bilstein inserts, but you can buy a new stock sealed strut shock combo.

Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst (MR2QIK)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:46:52 GMT

IMHO, with the improved quality & fiercely competitive coilover market, I'd look at coilovers rather than springs/struts (not so frowned upon in NSW by the Popo). Even in the lower end of town, BC coilovers have had very good reviews amongst many crowds. At potentially a smidgen less than $1000, very hard to look past. In combination with good tyres, front adjustable sways bars (with reo plates), front tension rods, good condition bushes etc & a well set alignment, I think the results would be exhilerating. The 5/8 spring rates would be ideal too IMO (potentially not as soft as Tein SS, but not nearly as harsh as the rest).

Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst (MRTurbo)

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:15:07 GMT

Yep TRD are a little lower and stiffer than the Eibach Pro Kit.
I use the Pro Kit + Koni shocks and they're great all rounders.