3RZFE into SW20

Re: 3RZFE into SW20 (B24)

Mon, 05 May 2014 10:15:49 GMT

I hope you have a decent budget for this project as you will need it! It will start at 5k for the V6 build then head upwards at a aggressive rate when considering turbo charging, built bottom ends etc.
For around the same money as a serious AR turbo or 5sgte (10k+) you could build a 2GR un-boosted with a figure close to what you are seeking and have a bomb load of usable power where it counts. Infact, on E85 I dare say you could get there. I personally love the turbo style of driving but after driving a 2GR race car recently (Thanks Pete!!) it really makes a difference and the sound is also very hard to beat.
If you add some turbo or SC (both around the same money but less heat issues with the SC) you can achieve 700hp on E85 with a conservative set up. 1300hp has been achieved with 1.4 bar at 7000rpm. Budget for this kind of weapon is 25-30k being professionally built by some of the best in the country.
I have no knowledge of your engine( will have to do some research at some stage)but the first thing to do is 'have the head flowed' to see what it can produce and what it required to get the flow rate balanced for your application. At least then you will know what your current engine is capable of for a few $100 before going crazy with something else. Also need to know how strong the bottom end is. The 2GR bottom end is standard in all these hi-po engine builds. Rods and pistons are replaced and the heads receive decent prep along with a number of other undisclosed tweaks to confirm reliability at sustained high rpm runs. If your bottom end is the same (6 bolt mains, forged crank, forged rods , etc) you may as well stick with the 2.7ltr as it will save you a lot of work/$$$.

Re: 3RZFE into SW20 (Nik_Lee)

Mon, 05 May 2014 06:38:30 GMT

Thanks for the link!
I had seen some slight coverage on that car in Speedhunters recently, it sounds like quite a good engine.

http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/04/papadakis-racing-tc/

Re: 3RZFE into SW20 (MCT_MR2)

Sun, 04 May 2014 14:17:42 GMT

If you wanted an in depth look at a 2AR engine, have a read through this article:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/3102/Nerds-Eye-View-Inside-Fredric-AasboPapadakis-Racings-Amazing-V8-eating-2AR-Toyota-Engine.aspx

It is a look at the build up of an 800whp 2AR that Fredric Asabo uses in formula drift in the US. there are actually another two cars that run 2azfe engines as well.

Re: 3RZFE into SW20 (Nik_Lee)

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 18:11:16 GMT

Ok so far most people seem to agree that for a reliable 300kw car your easiest option is to swap to built 5S bottom end, so my thinking is if you have to swap to a different short motor and you do still have to modify it for the intended purpose then why not explore other options. If you did go with something like the 2AR like Knightrous suggested or possibly the 2AZ and build that up could you possibly be gaining a reliable 300kw with the added bonus of a lighter weight engine and the option to run a 6 speed box.
Just thinking it may be food for thought if I had to look at buying a 5S to achieve what I wanted anyway.

And there seems to be a few people starting to play with the 2AR so I'm guessing there will be more and more performance parts becoming available for them.

Re: 3RZFE into SW20 (Mrskylighter)

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 14:45:26 GMT

If your goal is 300rwkw then all you need to do is build up a 5sfe block (rods + pistons) and swap over the gen3 head and oiling system. Then you end up with a strong block with capacity increased to 2.2L
No need to do an engine conversion for 300kw. Unless you want the low end torque of a V6 with 300kw :)

Re: 3RZFE into SW20 (Nik_Lee)

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 14:30:11 GMT

Yes my car is a genuine Gen3 hardtop turbo import and I did look for quite a while to find one that ticked all those boxes, preferably I would like to be able to just stick with the gen3 3S but I don't want to go building a strong engine and have the block fail once it is under a bit more stress.

To be honest I would love to eventually get the car somewhere around 300rwkw.

Re: 3RZFE into SW20 (Mrskylighter)

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 14:13:37 GMT

Nik, is your car a genuine Gen3 Hardtop turbo import? If it is, do you really wanna do an engine conversion on it? They are quite rare as it is.

I wouldn't say the Gen3 3sgte block is weak, its just not as strong as a gen2 3sgte or 5sfe etc. You can still get big power from them. How much HP are you aiming for in this car?

Re: 3RZFE into SW20 (MCT_MR2)

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 11:22:26 GMT

While looking at alloy camry engines like the 2ar, you could also consider the 2azfe. Plenty common due to them being used in 2 series of camrys, as well as rav 4's, there are plenty of parts for them available, you can buy stroker kits, sleeves, even 1000hp crate bottom ends for them. Not as advanced as the 2ar, but a lot cheaper.

Re: 3RZFE into SW20 (Knightrous)

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 08:36:40 GMT

Nik_Lee
I do like the sound of the 2AR-FE that Knightrous suggested and I also like the idea of being able to run a EA60 6 speed with it! Out of curiosity which box would be stronger the EA60 or the 5 speed that is already behind my turbo?

Paul Woods from TwoBrutal has stripped down both the EA/EB and E series boxes and rates them as having a similar capability as the E153.

Re: 3RZFE into SW20 (Nik_Lee)

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 07:14:22 GMT

Thanks for all the input guys.

I just thought I would ask the question to get ideas so it is good that a few different ideas have been posted, thank you. " />

I have to admit when I bought my MR2 I purposely went looking for a 94 JDM because I wanted the gen3 turbo and all other updates that the 94's got, at that time I did not realize that the 3SGTE had the weakness in the block when pushed a bit harder which is disappointing. So that is why I started to wonder what options there might be out there because if I was to look at changing engines to gain a more reliable engine than why not look at options that will give you added gains at the same time and what got me curious about the 3RZ was the fact I had seen these push big numbers reliably and I also have a 3RZ bottom end sitting at my parents place.
But I do have to admit that I would prefer an alloy engine over a cast engine as it would be nice to loose some weight from the rear of the car and I would prefer to stick with a 4cyl over a 6cyl mainly just because I'm more of a 4cyl fan and love the idea of hypo 4cly's sticking it to their bigger engined cousins.

I do like the sound of the 2AR-FE that Knightrous suggested and I also like the idea of being able to run a EA60 6 speed with it! Out of curiosity which box would be stronger the EA60 or the 5 speed that is already behind my turbo?

Re: 3RZFE into SW20 (Mrskylighter)

Sat, 19 Apr 2014 23:11:38 GMT

Another lightweight engine that bolts in (with a Hux Racing mount kit) is a Honda K20 (2.0L) or K24 (2.4L). Hang a turbo off the side and away you go :)

Re: 3RZFE into SW20 (B24)

Sat, 19 Apr 2014 23:00:19 GMT

One thing to consider with putting a boosted V6 with more weight than the 3SGTE in NA form is weight transfer.
Its all great to stick a high revving 500hp engine in the back of the car but when you start adding some spirited driving to the package you will be in the 'danger zone' of loss of control far quicker than other options.

An example: After driving a 2GR-FE at Marulan driving centre on Monday, one of the biggest differences with the 3SGTE package is the weight transfer or lack of. This engine is at least 20kg lighter the mine and its very noticeable on the limit. It simply did not 'pitch' to the degree of my 3SGTE does. Far easier to tame so easier to control but I fear this could be a different scenario with an iron block in a MR2.
Lighter is better in these cars.
A boosted 1MZ or 2AR (Knightrous) or 2GRFE Supercharged would be a wiser option. BTW, the 2GR is capable of 500+hp at 6200rpm on low boost when prepared by the right people.
You will also need a E153 gearbox and decent axle cages.
Whatever way you go, we are all here to help.

Re: 3RZFE into SW20 (Knightrous)

Sat, 19 Apr 2014 22:34:31 GMT

It could be an interesting build from a few perspectives. The 3RZ has been pretty popular in the drag world where I believe for a while it was the highest HP producing boosted 4 cylinder motor (or one of the highest). As mentioned, a lot of work for if your doing just chasing a mild upgrade over the regular 3SGTE.

IMO, if your looking for something different while chasing more torque and less lag to achieve more HP, you should have a good look at the Toyota 2AR-FE motor with a Turbo bolted on. These are a 2.5L, all alloy motor with VVTI and regularly get modified in the Scion Tc. There are a few off the shelf kits supporting up to 500hp which takes the hassle of piecing out a build plan. The other good thing is you can get the EA60 6 speed manual gearbox, which has been adapted to MR2's previously.

Alternatively, grab a cheap 1MZFE, drop some forged pistons in it (maybe some rods too if your going 500+HP), wire up an aftermarket computer, slap on a GT35 class turbo and make more HP and Torque then any 3SGTE anywhere in the rev range.

Re: 3RZFE into SW20 (dennis the menace)

Sat, 19 Apr 2014 21:17:44 GMT

A quick google search suggests that the 3rz is around 170kgs, and the 2grs are around 60 kgs less.

Re: 3RZFE into SW20 (cogs)

Sat, 19 Apr 2014 17:15:56 GMT

I think it's a bit too agricultural for an MR2, and probably a good deal heavier than other more practical options. Are 3RZs even used in transverse configuration? It'd probably be a lot more work than it's worth.

If going to that much trouble, I'd rather see something a little more unique like a high performance diesel.