Suspension advice

Re: Suspension advice (RHOK)

Mon, 20 Apr 2015 14:43:21 GMT

I just spoke to my engineer today who is doing my bike

This is in NSW

He advised me that the adjustable coil overs are okay if they are made for that model car and that they can meet the manufacturers minimum recommended height level between center of wheel to top of wheel lip arch apex

so for example if in the Mr2 it is a factory distance of 355mm standard and they say it should not go lower than 330 that means the coil overs must be able to be set at a height of 330 -- they can be able to be set lower for racing but then the onus is on you to raise it up for street level

adjustable tops are not an issue

this is my bike it has no rear suspension

ADR’s and Suspension Modification
This information has been extracted from the NSW RTA Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Modifications. Lovells Copy No. 753 - issued 1996. Requirements vary from state to state.
2.4.1. Precedence of ADRs and manufacturer's guidelines
It is important to note that the requirements of the ADRs and the original manufacturer's modification guidelines take precedence over the Code of Practice. Persons modifying or certifying modifications to light vehicles must ensure that any relevant manufacturer's recommendations are complied with and that no ADR compliance is invalidated, even as an unintended result of complying with the Code of Practice.
Vehicles Manufactured:

1934 - 31/12/1960:
- These vehicles are not covered by regulation.
1/1/1961 - to introduction of ADR 13 - Introduced 1973 - 9/1991
- Minimum Head Light Height: 600 mm.
- Maximum Head Light Height: 1400 mm
10/91 - to date:
- Minimum Head Light Height: 500 mm
- Maximum Head Light Height: 1200 mm

***Measurements taken from the ground to the centre of the headlight***
3.5.2 Certification of suspension modifications
Certification of suspension modifications shall be treated as follows:
Minor modifications can be treated as owner certified. These are modifications which do not affect the basic geometry or load carrying members of the suspension. Examples are:

additional or uprated anti roll bars;
uprated shock absorbers and/or springs;
altered vehicle ride height by no more than one third of the manufacturers suspension travel in the direction of the ride height change; fitting of suspension assemblies which were options from the original manufacturer for the particular make/model.

Major modifications are to be certified by an engineering signatory. These are modifications to suspension components, systems or installations which affect the major load carrying components of the suspension and which were not options available from the original manufacturer for the particular make/model, Examples are:

replacement of the original suspension (front or rear) with a system of a different design eg: from another model vehicle;
changes to suspension components such as changing the front cross member to accommodate an engine change;
substantially altering the mass of the vehicle.

3.5.3 Australian Design Rules
While no ADR is involved directly with suspension systems, the following are examples of ADRs which may be affected indirectly by a suspension modification:

ADR 7/- Brake hoses
ADR 13/- Installation of lighting devices - eg: height
ADR 14/- Rear vision mirrors - eg: altitude change
ADR 31/- Brake systems - eg: partial failure
ADR 43/- Vehicle configuration and dimensions

3.5.4.11 Changes to ride height
Changes to ride height are limited to one third of the working travel of the suspension from kerb mass height to metal to metal bump or rebound positions as specified by the manufacturer. Such modifications must comply with the following:

altered spring free lengths are acceptable providing the spring seat load is maintained at full rebound and material stresses are not exceeded;
the use of extended spring shackle plates is not permitted;
the suspension ride height of a coil spring suspension shall not be lowered by cutting off a section of the spring coils. New coil springs with increased spring rate specifications to provide for the reduced travel of the suspension shall be fitted.

3.5.5 Road testing
The completed vehicle must be evaluated under a range of road operating conditions to establish that ride, handling and steering characteristics are appropriate for the vehicle character and proposed type of operation. While some of these aspects are subjective, the vehicle must not behave in an unpredictable manner under any circumstances and its general behaviour must not be significantly different from the majority of vehicles available at the time of road test. The vehicle must be suitable for subsequent sale to persons of average driving ability.

Re: Suspension advice (MR2EVO)

Mon, 13 Apr 2015 05:48:54 GMT

Thanks falcon
That what I was looking for someone local.

Falcon
Hi MR2EVO.
Have a look at DELTA V gear. Its all well made right here in Aus. and will be delivered in just a couple of days.

Re: Suspension advice (Falcon)

Sun, 12 Apr 2015 21:08:15 GMT

Hi MR2EVO.
Have a look at DELTA V gear. Its all well made right here in Aus. and will be delivered in just a couple of days.

Re: Suspension advice (alexv)

Sun, 12 Apr 2015 19:27:26 GMT

Yeah, got them from two'r'us at the same time as a few other items. That was the only place I could find them but shipping cost from them is ridiculous...

Re: Suspension advice (MR2EVO)

Sun, 12 Apr 2015 13:47:46 GMT

Oh yeh my bad the fronts.
Where did you pick them up from?
Overseas?

Re: Suspension advice (alexv)

Sat, 11 Apr 2015 18:48:19 GMT

As far as I know there is no sway bar reinforcement plates for the rear, but I did install the ones at the front for sure else the sway bar would probably be off the mounts by now ;)

Rhok, the main reason why I didn't do adjustable coilovers is that a) the cheap ones don't handle as well as koni + good springs (imo) and b) they are illegal in quite a few states (unless you weld them so that they are no longer adjustable) which could make it tricky if you need to do an inspection or if you want to sell it. That's what made me decide to go for Konis instead...but I know lots of people seem to love their BC coilovers.

Re: Suspension advice (MR2EVO)

Sat, 11 Apr 2015 17:44:01 GMT

Alex did u install reinforcements plates for the rear sway bar when you did the install?

Re: Suspension advice (RHOK)

Sat, 11 Apr 2015 16:56:34 GMT

I am also looking at the YZ they claim separate dampening and rebound control and give a 2 year warranty

http://www.performancesuspension.com.au/toyota-mr2-sw20-1989-1999-xyz-super-sport-coilovers-to40.html

Re: Suspension advice (RHOK)

Sat, 11 Apr 2015 12:55:27 GMT

Okay I am going to chime in on this thread as i also live in Canberra area like Alex and no use repeating it all

I am at a cross roads as to what to do to my car which some of you may know is this one from a former member

http://www.mr2australia.c./mr2play/tm.aspx?m=52700

but it was abused by the guy that bought it from him as he is a numpty .......... ( never mind I got it real cheap so what he is doesnt matter )

anyway

Will the BC coil overs fit my car with the following wheel and tyre set up I believe they will due to the offset not being the regular +35

Wheels/Tyres:
- Racing Hart CP-F Rims: F: 7.5" x 17" +27 – 215/40/17, R: 8.5" x 17" +30 – 245/40/17

Currently I have n the car

- Koni adjustable shocks
- Lowered King Springs
- Whiteline adjustable swaybars - front & rear

rear sway bar has adjustable end links
- Front swaybar reinforcement plates

I have just ordered the full set of bushes for the car and will look at replacing the tie rod ends and ball joints should it be needed/required

The koni are set up half way in stiffness front and rear
swaybars set up mid stiffness as well

car has a tendency to understeer in really tight corners

what pisses me off is that though the "look " of the car is nice with the lowered king springs they are just too low and every dip or hole in the road causes the tyres to rub on the inner guard - obviously the king springs suck

now if I get some new eibach they are basically $400 delivered or 1/3 third the cost of BC coil overs
add some camber pins in for another $80 and then the labour to take out the struts change springs over etc redo alignment blah blah blah works out to be about 50% of the cost of coil overs

seems easier to just get Coil-overs and sell off the konis and kings

Does anyone know the legalities of coil-over struts in NSW ?

Re: Suspension advice (RHOK)

Sat, 11 Apr 2015 12:37:13 GMT

nate_p
Best bang for buck in my opinion would be a set of BC coilovers, only upgrading the front swaybar can cause some issues with under steer. Bush kit is a good start I would also recommend checking all ball joints and upgrading to the urethane engine mounts. I have also installed the Megan racing adjustable front tension rods and adjustable rear trailing arms. My sw20 feels really good to drive very responsive feels good on the track and still well behaved on the road.

Nate - how much of a difference do the megan racing bits add ?

Re: Suspension advice (alexv)

Fri, 10 Apr 2015 22:31:55 GMT

Ah yeah, I forgot about these :)
My front engine mount was in pretty bad shape, replacing both this one and the rear engine mounts helped quite a bit during shifting, the car feels more stable (before that, it felt like there was lots of weight transfer when depressing the clutch pedal and again after engaging a gear) and the shifting more instantaneous.
Still a worthwhile upgrade, imo.

Re: Suspension advice (MR2EVO)

Fri, 10 Apr 2015 22:03:28 GMT

hey alex

how did you go with the engine mount?

Re: Suspension advice (alexv)

Fri, 10 Apr 2015 14:39:19 GMT

Just an update, for anyone in the future that might be looking at this old thread :)
-Got the full poly bushings installed, helped handling a bit but nothing amazing. Had them installed quite a few months ago and no noise issues so far, at least!
-Whiteline sway bar front and rear: not a huge improvement either, and looking back at it, I probably wouldn't have bought it if I knew. Front sway bar to the stiffest did improve turn in a bit but ended up being too stiff for the car, so switched it back to mid (rear set to softest) for a slightly improved turn in but not so stiff as to raise the front wheel off the ground in hard cornering. Installing the sway bars seems to have cause some clunking to now happen during hard braking and bumps.
-Rear strut brace made no difference as far as I could tell.
-Koni shock inserts: hard to tell the difference considering the stock shocks were shot before, but they do handle well, and the adjustability is an added bonus :)
-Waiting to receive a front strut brace, so we'll see if that does anything...
Previous owner said the springs were some sort of lowering springs, but found out that they are stock. I might look at upgrading them in the future (maybe).

The biggest handling improvement, by far, was going from 18" non staggered wheels to 16" 7" and 8" staggered setup.

Re: Suspension advice (alexv)

Sat, 14 Jun 2014 11:13:02 GMT

Tree: Thanks for the info about springs. Very useful. Sadly, I don't know what type is on my car right now ;/

RedTarga: No, the wheels are not staggered. Couldn't find staggered wheels that didn't cost $1000+ at the time, and even then good used ones still seem pretty hard to find.
I have not investigated getting the Koni rebuilt, actually. I am not sure if anyone in Canberra can do it and/or if it would be very cost effective considering there are brand new pairs sold for under $300 online but you are right, it's definitely something to consider!

Re: Suspension advice (Reddtarga)

Sat, 14 Jun 2014 11:02:07 GMT

alexv, are the 7-17-45 wheels staggered? Also definitely ditch the 18's, too heavy.
From a handling point of view staggered wheels (the lighter the better) and tyres are probably the first thing to get sorted.
The availability and cost of performance tyres is an important consideration.
Also get the ball joints/rod ends and alignment sorted before worrying about ARB's.

"Occasional trip to the track"
Sounds like you will do most of your driving on the street anyway, and Koni's will give you the best ride on the softest setting compared to most coilovers, and you could stiffen them up for a track day.
Have you investigated getting your Koni yellows rebuilt?