Wozzah

TEX

I have had some experience with both engines, personally a dead stock 1.8 ZETEC runnning carbs was almost identical performance to a very worked injected pinto. 
I have done both, and I can assure you that a std Zetec makes nothing like "identical power".  On a decent Pinto build its around 30-40hp in favour of the Pinto, Fact.  Based on your result the Pinto isn't as healthy as you thought if that was. 
Not power, performance. This was not my pinto but a fellow competitior who had spent about 5k, similar amount to what I spent building my first pinto.

This was evident during a FOSC run at bathurst in 2009. There was basically nothing in it. #95 (zetec) #172 (pinto)
http://racing.natsoft.com...ct_34402928.94F/View?3
http://racing.natsoft.com...t_34402928.94F/View?21
I since swapped out the 1.8 for a st170 lump again dead stock and using the same carbs 45mm dellortos. And took close to 15 seconds of a lap time at bathurst the following year.
So after spending close to 5k in 2008 building the pinto that went pop up mountian straight, I changed camps to Zetec, the 1.8 was $150 the st170 $1250, both motors copped an absolute flogging and while I can't comment on the 1.8 the st170 is still going strong and produces 146 rwhp while not as big a figure as the pinto at 159 rwhp, it has been ultra reliable and after the initial expense of conversion parts the economies are valid, say a max of 2k for an st170, opposed to 5k for a hot pinto...
5k doesn't build a good pinto, and 2k doesn't get a zetec in there and running factoring in EVERYTHING, and by your own admission you still don't have the same power.
I disagree, my pinto was good, just didn't last. The 2k figure was a conservative estimate on the ST170 engine ONLY. You should still be able to get conversion parts for under 3K. I was unlucky and inexperienced at building my pinto hence the rod failure (even though I followed all published advice), pinto builds are something I know you dont get right the very first time.
WOZ, How many have you built? Had any failures? poor performers? Have you ever added up all the development costs?
For me a stock motor transplant that comes close to a hypo pinto is my clear winner. NO building required.

I know the St170 has more potential but its tops as is and super reliable.
I doubt there is many pintos running punching at this level. for cost, replacement cost, reliability, and power delivery.
Haven't had a Pinto fail for years, and have at least 2 engines that run a number of events a year, both cars are front runners, and have proven reliabilty you build them right they don't fail.  My original road car pinto and cylinder head are still going strong at 180hp (160rwhp) in the car of the guy i sold it to 10 years down the track.  How much did these engine cost to build??? how many broken engines in the learning process to get there????? My engine & conversion cost well under 5k. You said yourself you can't build a good pinto for 5k.
In summary qualitfying times
very hot pinto 3:09.75 DNF event
1.8 zetec 3:01.95 (stock internal) Competed all weekend
ST170 2:54.83  competed all weekend
EXACTLY the same car.
All this refects is the Pinto build was bad and under powered. 
I do not doubt a pinto  could  go toe to toe with an st170 escort, but that pinto would have cost more than my lump, would be far more expensive to replace, and would have had to have an experienced builder involved (again).
So to answer the original post.
IF you are inexperienced at engine builds
or
would like to twin cam your escort,
or
on a budget.
My advise is find an ST170 engine (not easy but not impossible) slap about $2500 worth of off the shelf conversion parts on it. Choose your induction/engine control method.
And enjoy putting it all together, there are some minor engineering challenges to be had, but well worth the effort.
I'll be the first to admit its not a very good looking engine, but bang for buck its right up there.
Is the pinto better than the zetec. well thats a different thread.

I am in the middle of doing a Zetec conversion on my mk2. The reason i went for it is yes you can pull big numbers from a Pinto but as you start adding power reliablity get chucked out the window. Basically what everyone said. The potential to go to the track and still drive home. 
 
It had 1.3 kent in it when i bought it and i wanted a bit more go then i could get out of it, so thats why i'm doing the conversion. 
 
so far i have gotten everything on the cheap, Ratta i've got a budget of $10K for complete build.
Escort $750
Mondeo (zetec) $500
Gearbox $100
Now i just need to the conversion Kit from RetroFord $3000
some tune up parts from the UK $1000 (cams, adjustable cam gears, intake plenum)
ECU (Haltech Sprint 500) $1100
and a panel beat and i think it will be a quick car on a pretty tight budget
 
I'm only doing it once so i may as well do it how i want.
 
Cheers
Patrick
 

CuttBack

so far i have gotten everything on the cheap, Ratta i've got a budget of $10K for complete build.
Escort $750
Mondeo (zetec) $500
Gearbox $100
Now i just need to the conversion Kit from RetroFord $3000
some tune up parts from the UK $1000 (cams, adjustable cam gears, intake plenum)
ECU (Haltech Sprint 500) $1100
Cheers
Patrick

Jeepers I got a complete silvertop kit here for $2,500 from Retro Ford.

Smcka
Jeepers I got a complete silvertop kit here for $2,500 from Retro Ford. 

 
Do you have the Blacktop kits coz thats what i'm after. Or can you import them at that price?
That would be a great savings.

I only have a silvertop left. No more coming as it seems Retro Ford will split the shipments therefore avoiding duty and making them cheaper. I paid duty and GST so can't compete.
BTW the site should be back up Sunday night (You have not allowed PM through the forum so couldn't reply)

TEX

Wozzah

TEX

I have had some experience with both engines, personally a dead stock 1.8 ZETEC runnning carbs was almost identical performance to a very worked injected pinto. 
I have done both, and I can assure you that a std Zetec makes nothing like "identical power".  On a decent Pinto build its around 30-40hp in favour of the Pinto, Fact.  Based on your result the Pinto isn't as healthy as you thought if that was. 
Not power, performance. This was not my pinto but a fellow competitior who had spent about 5k, similar amount to what I spent building my first pinto.
Power, performance? difference being?
This was evident during a FOSC run at bathurst in 2009. There was basically nothing in it. #95 (zetec) #172 (pinto)
http://racing.natsoft.com...ct_34402928.94F/View?3
http://racing.natsoft.com...t_34402928.94F/View?21
I since swapped out the 1.8 for a st170 lump again dead stock and using the same carbs 45mm dellortos. And took close to 15 seconds of a lap time at bathurst the following year.
So after spending close to 5k in 2008 building the pinto that went pop up mountian straight, I changed camps to Zetec, the 1.8 was $150 the st170 $1250, both motors copped an absolute flogging and while I can't comment on the 1.8 the st170 is still going strong and produces 146 rwhp while not as big a figure as the pinto at 159 rwhp, it has been ultra reliable and after the initial expense of conversion parts the economies are valid, say a max of 2k for an st170, opposed to 5k for a hot pinto...
5k doesn't build a good pinto, and 2k doesn't get a zetec in there and running factoring in EVERYTHING, and by your own admission you still don't have the same power.
I disagree, my pinto was good, just didn't last. The 2k figure was a conservative estimate on the ST170 engine ONLY. You should still be able to get conversion parts for under 3K. I was unlucky and inexperienced at building my pinto hence the rod failure (even though I followed all published advice), pinto builds are something I know you dont get right the very first time.
WOZ, How many have you built? Had any failures? poor performers? Have you ever added up all the development costs?
For me a stock motor transplant that comes close to a hypo pinto is my clear winner. NO building required.
You are completely contradicting youself.  You're saying that 5k is enough to build one, yet it didn't last?  And you're saying a rod failed (let me guess, std prepped rod?).  Wouldn't that indicate had you spent extra on your 5k and put decent rods in to start with that maybe it wouldn't have failed?
In terms of how many I have built, the answer is too many to count.  In terms of failures, 3 over the last 20 years, and ALL of them were because of short cuts in the build and were expected.  Never had a poor performer.  No money wasted in developement, just time and speaking to the right people, and once the developement work is done it's there forever.
Stock Zetec to hypo Pinto equalling power, not even close, which was the original link in the post, disappointed with the conversion.


I know the St170 has more potential but its tops as is and super reliable.
I doubt there is many pintos running punching at this level. for cost, replacement cost, reliability, and power delivery.
Haven't had a Pinto fail for years, and have at least 2 engines that run a number of events a year, both cars are front runners, and have proven reliabilty you build them right they don't fail.  My original road car pinto and cylinder head are still going strong at 180hp (160rwhp) in the car of the guy i sold it to 10 years down the track.  How much did these engine cost to build??? how many broken engines in the learning process to get there????? My engine & conversion cost well under 5k. You said yourself you can't build a good pinto for 5k.
In terms of cost, not factoring in the hang ons (carbs, pipes etc which are still required with either engine) around the 6-7k mark, and no engines broken in the process.  With a Pinto it costs the same to have 160hp as it does to have 192hp, as the only thing that changes is the venturi size in the carbs, the size of the pipes, the cam and valve springs, all of which you have to have anyway.   If you factor in EVERYTHING involved with a zetec conversion it works out around the same price by the time its actually in there and running.  Then you also have the issues of engineers reports and EPA requirements to contend with if you're planning on a road going version which adds more expense (ask those who have done in properly from start to finsh and see how much it adds up to).  All that factored in a silver top is only good for 160hp, st170 probably around the 175 mark.
In summary qualitfying times
very hot pinto 3:09.75 DNF event
1.8 zetec 3:01.95 (stock internal) Competed all weekend
ST170 2:54.83  competed all weekend
EXACTLY the same car.
All this refects is the Pinto build was bad and under powered. 
I do not doubt a pinto  could  go toe to toe with an st170 escort, but that pinto would have cost more than my lump, would be far more expensive to replace, and would have had to have an experienced builder involved (again).
So to answer the original post.
IF you are inexperienced at engine builds
or
would like to twin cam your escort,
or
on a budget.
My advise is find an ST170 engine (not easy but not impossible) slap about $2500 worth of off the shelf conversion parts on it. Choose your induction/engine control method.
And enjoy putting it all together, there are some minor engineering challenges to be had, but well worth the effort.
I'll be the first to admit its not a very good looking engine, but bang for buck its right up there.
Is the pinto better than the zetec. well thats a different thread.

Sure, if you want a twin cam engine on the cheap, and you're happy with 160hp by all means try a zetec conversion, but that wasn't the original topic, the topic was a direct comparison with a half healthy Pinto vs std Zetec, and he's disappointed with it, surprise suprise.  If you knuckle down and compare the power figures between the 2 its obvious why.

rebuild your xflow:)

If the topic reads to zetec or not to zetec, your obviously keen on the idea then I say Go the zetec!
We can debate how great the old pinto is and how rubbish the zetec is all day long.
In closing I'll offer some observations:
Outright power in worked form: winner - debatable (I think Zetec but better not upset the pinto tragics)
Comparing stock motors to worked motors: pointless
Total cost: Winner - debatable
Dollars per Hp - Zetec
Weight: Zetec
Replacement cost: Winner - Pinto (people give them away)
Most cams - Zetec
Most Valves - Zetec
Most modern - Zetec
Most overated - Pinto
 
 

 Nobody here's trying to give the pinto more credit than it deserves. I think OP has just highlighted how ordinary a standard zetec is. Most mechanics refer to them as 'head gasket blowing piles of sh/te But that could be due to the use of dodgy radiators, just look at the Kia Sportage with the FE-DOHC engines. Great motor, bad radiators.