2017/12/28 00:20:39
Philh
Microfiche parts list for 2 litre Mk2 Escorts depicts the cups above the rubber mounts.
Microfiche parts list for 6 cyl TC/TD Cortinas depicts the same cups below the mounts.
 
2017/12/28 11:30:58
BEE VEE
As Philh has shown; the Cortina app seems to care less which way they go.
 
The following IMHO are facts that cannot be disputed.....
 
1/  Water (rain/engine wash) and Debris(gravity) WILL collect with cup at bottom of mount, that wont do on top
 
2/  Rubber sideways support WILL occur whether cup is at top or bottom
 
3/   Most importantly.......Torque stress and distortion will be greater at top of rubber mount due
       to smaller surface area of cast iron eng brkt compared to full surface at X-member end,  and thus cup at
       top will provide a "stiffener plate" and even up un-equal surface area support
 
4/  With engine extractors at their hottest 99% of time while travelling (red to white hot) even with air flow, I feel
     this immense direct heat is better deflected/dissipated with cup at top where MAX heat is radiating for MAX time
 
5/  Both my Ford 351's have been raced at Sandown with standard engine mounts that never came with any cups
     or devices to prevent distortion or breakage. They have MUCH more torque & power that a V6 Essex. They have 
     both won races and the ORIGINAL stock engine mounts have been there for over 30-35 years.
 
I've yet to hear on this forum and any other source in the last 45 years that stock un-modified Engines have ever broken
their mounts on any Capri; cups or no cups...............or that they're trouble-prone.  Please inform me if you've heard different.
 
One thing I have noticed over the years; the Poms knew how to make an Engine Mount, even if they knew nothing to
prevent oil leaks !
 
While on "rubber and heat", it may be a timely reminder to check your HEATER HOSE that runs under RH Extractors between rear of WP and firewall, as it comes VERY close to bothe Engine and Extractor HEAT, albeit relieved with water/coolant within.
There is an important hose bracket near rear of RH Cyl Head to help keep in place. I believe hose should pass between Block and Dipstick to avoid Extractors on V6 Essex. 
2017/12/28 16:11:18
GTV6
Oh I see, mounts didn't split or excessively distort so these were needed to stop the mounts from melting due to the white/red hot extractors encountered during day to day driving conditions.....in the UK, but for some reason they didn't melt on a V8 race car, but even more bizarre is that heat was such a problem on the humble escort that heat shielding was required to stop its mounts melting,  and strangely the Cortina also had a heat problem but at the bottom of the mount.  And the heat problem was so bad in the UK that on the mk3's they increased their size to cover the whole mount, and continued to paint them in the most heat conductive colour...black.
 
They are support cups, have nothing to do with heat shielding and should be installed where they offer the most support.  They were obviously inadequate and were subsequently upgraded.  To give the proper support they really should be replaced with full depth after market cups.
2017/12/28 17:27:03
old capri v6
English Car = English Language
Is it a Cup? or  a Cap?
Maybe the answer was in the original question.
 
2017/12/28 17:34:45
Wiggy333
The mounts at top are smaller but bottom mount would take the most movement. Because both are fixed the most stress will be achieved in the middle. So by it’s design it shouldn’t matter. The cup doesn’t touch the mount by the way defeating both arguments.
2017/12/28 20:54:26
GTV6
Wiggy333
 Because both are fixed the most stress will be achieved in the middle.



That's not correct.  If you were to draw a free body diagram of the system the mount is fixed at the cross member at its centre due to the bolted connection, pin supported at its edges at the cross member and free to move with the engine at the top making it a complex cantilever arrangement, which means max shear stress is at the cross member end at the bottom edge of the mount due to compression and bending forces applied by the weight of the engine.
2017/12/28 22:05:53
Darian
G'day Fellas,

Found a couple of photos on my phone.

Taken when looking at the exhaust but shows the mount.

A picture says a thousand words!

How they are on mine anyway. Engine never been out in the 30+ years I've owned it.

Doubtful out before that.

Metal cup on the bottom, hose between block and dipstick tube.

Appears to be getting a little "heavy" in this thread. Or am I mistaken?

Safe and Happy New Year to All.

Cheers,

DJC.

Attached Image(s)

2017/12/28 23:49:49
BEE VEE
Now I know what Louis Pasteur went through
2017/12/29 16:06:33
ronsmallford
Thanks for the pics Darian. If Ford had put one in their manual we would not be having this "serious" conversation. Show me another smallford forum where the detail is discussed like on here.
When i assembled my capri back in 2010 i had to decide whether to put the cups on top or below.  I decided to put them underneath based on nothing more than a hazy memory from the early seventies. So it was a nostalgic decision not one based on all the amazing technical stuff in this thread.
Now seven years on and there has been none of the potential problems mentioned above. And i am still happy with my choice.
Two things i think are worth mentioning.
1. The cup fitted to the crossmember fixes it in place, the edge of the cup being about 5mm from the steering column on my car. If the cup was fitted on top it would move around as the mount took the load of the engine in driving, occasionaly hitting the steering column. For this reason and possibly others i think ford would have originaly fitted the cup under the mount.
2. Its easier to inspect the condition of the mount with the cup fitted under as its clearly visible.
Thats my two bobs worth, "serious but civil"..........cheers,...ron.
2017/12/29 17:19:54
BEE VEE
Youre right Wiggy..........the cups-to-mount gap on mine are at least 2-3 mm defeating any argument that they support any shear forces is MY GUESS
 
If mounts were touching Cups, itd be MY GUESS theyve begun to fail and squash down-and-out
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