2012/11/21 20:30:27
hendo
If you already have the auto tunnel you wont need the bolts, the hardest part will be the speedo circlip or gearstick
Depending on exhaust and manifold set up, you might follow Gdubs suggestions and remove the downpipe and rockercover.
2012/11/22 09:04:49
ratta tat tat
Yep I'll take off the rocker cover (and loosen off the engine mounts a fraction). I left the rocker cover on when installing the motor, it was tight but I got there in the end
The headers have a flange so disconnecting the zorst will be simple. I have a drive shaft yoke now so might get out there tonight and make a start on it.
The reason for removal is the clutch pivot spacer. I suspect I have a roll top clutch and it didn't need the spacer! Needs a different throwout bearing too so I've been told.
2012/11/22 10:48:29
joeyjonsey
I thought they just run a different throwout bearing but still use the spacer , that's what I run ,
2012/11/22 20:54:45
ratta tat tat
Gdub  it certainly pays to remove the rocker cover to allow the engine to 'rock back' further without touching the firewall.

Gearbox is out. Very good advice about the engine rock Thanks Gdub

2012/11/23 12:31:37
Gdub
Post up pics of the fingers on your pressure plate and also the type of release bearing you currently have and i'll tell you in 2 seconds if that is your problem.
 
All pinto's need the fork spacer regardless of which style of clutch fingers you have
2012/11/23 16:15:00
ratta tat tat


And here's the new bearing

 
2012/11/23 16:33:45
ratta tat tat
I've been told from two reliable sources, no spacer for english clutch. The roll top fingers are the same depth as the spacer. Spacers are for use with flat fingers which makes sense to me going by the way my clutch was working before the box came out.
Here's the email I sent to Yesterford
 
"Hi Mike
I have recently installed a 2L pinto into my MK1 escort and I  purchased the pivot spacer and bolt for the conversion because I was using a 1975 MK2 escort Ghia 4 speed gearbox that came off a 1600. The item description says "Needed when converting from 1300/1600 to 2000 but I don't think it is needed in my case for the following reasons.
My clutch cable is at minimum adjustment and the pedal is right up towards me from the floor. The clutch only starts to release at the very top of my pedal. The clutch slips when I accelerate moderately and the clutch fork is hard up against the rear of the bellhousing after I bolted it to the block.
Can you please tell me if the spacer is required at all times because I'm certain I'm going to have to remove the gearbox and pull it out. If it's not needed can I please return for a refund?
Thanks, Haydn"
2012/11/23 18:12:08
na.charrett
Never heard of an Aussie 2lt not needing the spacer block.... there are two style pressure plates and each has their own shaped bearing that you canont mix up... if you do you will get the sort of issues you are describing... been there done that.
2012/11/23 19:02:22
RS 2000
ratta tat tat

I've been told from two reliable sources, no spacer for english clutch. The roll top fingers are the same depth as the spacer. Spacers are for use with flat fingers which makes sense to me going by the way my clutch was working before the box came out.


Correct!
 
You have to use pivot spacer with 2lt flat finger(Aussie) type clutch.
 second pic shows  flat finger type thrust bearing.
2012/11/24 00:02:43
na.charrett
RS 2000

ratta tat tat

I've been told from two reliable sources, no spacer for english clutch. The roll top fingers are the same depth as the spacer. Spacers are for use with flat fingers which makes sense to me going by the way my clutch was working before the box came out.


Correct!

 
mmmm... I absolutely hate to call anyone else incorrect (as there are exceptions to every rule, and the people who built Escorts seems to throw the odd anomally in just to upset people occasionally), but...
 
I have used both types of clutches in Aussie 2lt Pinto's in multiple Escorts over the last 20 years, and ALL including the bent finger ones have needed the pivot block (forgot it once or twice one one of the types I forget which) and it all had to come out, mixed the wrong bearing/pressure plate twice and it had to come out... see the trend!). For the pressure plate with curved fingers, you need to use the matched bearing which is flat, and for the flat fingers, you need to use its matched bearing which has a ridge in it, or curved depending how you want to describe it.  If you use flat/flat then you will not get enough throw and the clutch will not feel right as there is no round surface for the fingers to contact/pivot on.  If you use bent/bent then the contact/pivot point between the bearing and fingers will likely be wrong but it may work without the space block, but I would guess the life of the pressure plate / bearing is limited.  (I have had 2 seized clutch release bearings too and they are not fun either)
 
Maybe (just maybe) the alloy European Belhousing and / or clutch is different (does the allow RS bellhousing have the pivot point cast into the bellhousing?) but with the Aussie 2lt (with either the flat finger and ridged bearing, or the bent fingers and flat bearing) and Aussie cast bellhousing you DO need the pivot block, or you will be pulling all out again to put it back in....
 
Easy to check - once engine/clutch/box fully assembled and BEFORE you put it back in the car.  If the gearbox is bolted back to the engine - to operate properly - the lever arm poking out of the bellhousing (where the cable hooks onto it) should be almost all of the way towards the rear of the opening with less than 1cm of freeplay (from memory 3-5mm is about normalish) before you can feel it rest on the clutch fingers if you pull the lever forward.  If there is no freeplay then it is bottoming out on the rear to the bellhousing hole and probably already partially dissengauging the clutch before you start, and you will likley not be able to fully engage the clutch (in which case remove the spacer and retry).  If there is too much free play with the arm coming too far forward, then you will bottom out the lever in the front of the bellhousing hole when the clutch cable pulls it and will not be able to dissengauge the clutch as you run out of pull/angle - This is where the spacer comes in to fix this issue (as the Pinto clutch must be around 12-14mm further forward than the Kent clutch as this is the depth of the "spacer"....)
 
You have to pull the box out anyway, but before you refit everything measure it as above the save yourself time and possibly money too...
 
Only way I could think that you would not need the spacer would be if the bearing (or bearing carrier) was extra thick to allow for the pivot point on the bellhousing to remain where it was (ie release arm still in original position and almost horizontal) to allow enough throw without going overcentre and effecting the ratio or position of the lever arm where it comes out of the gearbox opening (where you hook the clutch cable up to)....
 
Hoe this helps and does not confuse you more. Nothing worse that getting the car all back together, cleaning up, changing to clean clothes, starting the engine, and not being able to get a gear at all...
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